Episode 238: Healthy, Wealthy & Living Longer - The Secrets to Longevity, Finance & Life Optimisation with Jon Sabes

In this episode of The True Form Podcast, I’m joined by entrepreneur, author, and longevity expert Jon Sabes to explore the powerful connection between your health, your wealth, and how long and well you live.

Jon has spent years at the intersection of biotechnology, financial planning, and longevity science, helping people rethink how they approach aging, money, and purpose. From his book Healthy Wealthy Longevity to pioneering work with Longevity Financial Partners, Jon shares actionable insights on how to align your daily habits with a future of vitality and financial freedom.

🎯 In this episode, we cover:
✅ The science of longevity—what really impacts how long you live
✅ How your health choices affect your financial future (and vice versa)
✅ Why traditional financial planning is broken for the modern world
✅ Practical strategies to optimise both your healthspan and wealth span
✅ The role of mindset, movement, and even sauna bathing in long-term wellbeing
✅ How to design a life that supports happiness, purpose, and resilience

Suppose you're thinking about your future, whether it’s living longer, retiring better, or simply thriving now. In that case, this conversation is packed with insights you won’t hear from your average financial advisor or health coach.

🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or watch right here on YouTube.

Watch me on YouTube
https://youtu.be/mTGNqSag-hI

Listen to the True From Podcast 
https://trueform.buzzsprout.com 

Follow me on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/jack.lgraham?igsh=Y2tranE0NDJjN2gz&utm_source=qr


Connect with Jon: 

Instagram: @jonsabes
LinkedIn: Jon Sabes
TikTok: @jon.sabes
YouTube: @jonsabes

Personal Website: www.jonsabes.com
Business Website: www.longevityfp.com
Philanthropy Website: www.sabes.foundation

Contact
Email: jsabes@longevityfp.com
Cell: (612) 388-2223
Resident: Austin, Texas

Transcript

00:03:15.490 --> 00:03:16.630
Jon Sabes: Hey! Jack!

2
00:03:16.630 --> 00:03:17.730
Jack Graham: John, how are you.

3
00:03:18.440 --> 00:03:20.180
Jon Sabes: I'm lovely. How are you?

4
00:03:20.180 --> 00:03:21.550
Jack Graham: Yeah. Going. Very good.

5
00:03:22.150 --> 00:03:22.960
Jon Sabes: Cool.

6
00:03:23.510 --> 00:03:24.610
Jack Graham: How's your morning been.

7
00:03:25.810 --> 00:03:36.169
Jon Sabes: Oh, I think I'm into midday. Here it's been a it's been a great, another another great day. How about you? What? What day are you at, and what time are you.

8
00:03:36.170 --> 00:03:38.860
Jack Graham: Saturday morning, 7, 7, 30.

9
00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:40.140
Jon Sabes: Got it.

10
00:03:40.140 --> 00:03:40.480
Jack Graham: Yeah.

11
00:03:40.480 --> 00:03:41.619
Jon Sabes: You're ahead of me.

12
00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:42.660
Jack Graham: Whereabouts are you.

13
00:03:42.980 --> 00:03:45.549
Jon Sabes: I'm I'm in Baja, Mexico right now.

14
00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:46.770
Jack Graham: Oh, nice!

15
00:03:47.070 --> 00:03:48.050
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I

16
00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.738
Jon Sabes: It's our 1st season. We moved down here last November.

17
00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.020
Jon Sabes: So yeah, it's been amazing.

18
00:03:56.440 --> 00:03:57.880
Jack Graham: Get a bit of surf there.

19
00:03:58.700 --> 00:04:11.300
Jon Sabes: The yeah, I'm up on the East Cape, so I'm I'm just north of of Cabo San Lucas, on the East Cape. So this is the. This is like the place to be for surfing. It's 1 of the reasons why I came down here. In fact.

20
00:04:11.980 --> 00:04:19.379
Jon Sabes: you know, we're getting this swell that's just arriving that, you know. Killed a bunch of people down in your part of the world the other day.

21
00:04:19.380 --> 00:04:21.260
Jack Graham: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.

22
00:04:21.260 --> 00:04:21.920
Jon Sabes: Yeah.

23
00:04:22.140 --> 00:04:27.589
Jon Sabes: yeah, everyone's been talking about it like, yeah, we didn't know how big the the forecast was gonna hold.

24
00:04:27.900 --> 00:04:32.109
Jon Sabes: it looks like it's not gonna be exactly what they said, but it was

25
00:04:32.970 --> 00:04:43.189
Jon Sabes: Originally everyone was just like holy shit. It messed up a bunch of people down in Australia. I think 7 people died. I was reading about it.

26
00:04:43.190 --> 00:04:50.579
Jack Graham: Yeah, it's crazy how it just can be like that here. But then a nice wave on the other side of the world.

27
00:04:50.950 --> 00:04:53.509
Jon Sabes: Right? Yeah, it's fascinating.

28
00:04:55.230 --> 00:04:58.839
Jack Graham: What do you normally surf on like? What sort of board do you ride.

29
00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:18.170
Jon Sabes: Well, I'm a baby. I'm still. I'm still in the beginning mode. So you know, I grew up in Minnesota, so we don't have. We don't have waves there, you know, and I spent some time in Cal I mean, I know how to surf a little bit, but until you you know you got to live by the ocean, and so one of my goals was to live near the ocean.

30
00:05:18.924 --> 00:05:41.879
Jon Sabes: Before this body of mine kind of says enough is enough, and I could still kind of get comfortable, more comfortable in the wave and get a little more competent picking it up and stuff. So I'm still in the beginner phase of of it all. You know. I'm on the on an 8 foot board and playing with, you know, foam, top foam tops. And I'm just, I'm just, you know, I'm still yeah, I'm a baby.

31
00:05:42.860 --> 00:05:47.829
Jon Sabes: I I have some good board sense, and I can, you know, doing some supping, and I'm I'm I've been

32
00:05:49.179 --> 00:05:58.019
Jon Sabes: snowboarding and water, skiing and wakeboarding all that all that stuff my whole life. So you know, being on a board is all good. But yeah.

33
00:05:58.020 --> 00:05:59.640
Jack Graham: Do you ever surf on the sub.

34
00:06:00.810 --> 00:06:03.909
Jon Sabes: Do I have a am I on a surf? Break right in here.

35
00:06:03.910 --> 00:06:07.019
Jack Graham: No like you. Surf on the supboard. The stand up, paddle board.

36
00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:10.260
Jon Sabes: Yeah, yeah. Yep, I can do that. Yep. Yep.

37
00:06:10.540 --> 00:06:17.780
Jack Graham: That's good fun. I've been surfing on the stand up paddle board for about 10 years now, and I love it so much more than a short board.

38
00:06:18.690 --> 00:06:21.040
Jon Sabes: Yeah, yeah. Well.

39
00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:32.260
Jon Sabes: it's it's an incredible yeah, it it's just so incredible to live near the beach. I guess you know again, it's 1st time I've lived near the ocean, and it's just wonderful.

40
00:06:32.260 --> 00:06:32.680
Jack Graham: Yeah.

41
00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:33.450
Jon Sabes: Submit.

42
00:06:33.450 --> 00:06:42.280
Jack Graham: I grew up on the east coast, near Sydney, of Australia, beautiful beaches right on the coast. I grew up surfing, but now I'm in Melbourne.

43
00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:49.489
Jack Graham: and there's not too many beaches here. So I really got that urge to go back somewhere where there's some waves.

44
00:06:50.530 --> 00:06:54.690
Jon Sabes: What what do they call it? The Gold Coast? Don't they call it the Gold Coast? Is that is that.

45
00:06:54.690 --> 00:06:57.830
Jack Graham: So that's north. That's north of Sydney.

46
00:06:57.970 --> 00:07:01.139
Jack Graham: So, like a good couple days drive.

47
00:07:01.450 --> 00:07:01.960
Jon Sabes: Yeah.

48
00:07:02.257 --> 00:07:12.359
Jack Graham: Yeah. Nice up there as well. Gets a little bit crowded up that way these days. The surf. But yeah, it's all nice along the east coast of Australia, you get some good waves.

49
00:07:12.930 --> 00:07:15.120
Jon Sabes: Have you ever been up to the Baja up here and see.

50
00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:15.459
Jack Graham: In this.

51
00:07:15.460 --> 00:07:16.350
Jon Sabes: Part of the world.

52
00:07:16.350 --> 00:07:23.599
Jack Graham: No, it isn't want. It is on my hit list. I do want to get there and come down the coast like Mexico into chile, and then all the way down to sort of.

53
00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:25.410
Jon Sabes: Retainer. Yeah, yeah.

54
00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:31.750
Jon Sabes: I got to chile last year. It was. It was. It was good. It's it's good. Yeah.

55
00:07:31.750 --> 00:07:34.680
Jack Graham: Did you? Is there snow in chile, isn't there.

56
00:07:34.970 --> 00:07:41.640
Jon Sabes: Yes, mountains and snow. Yeah, yeah, Patagonia, right? So they've got yeah, some real.

57
00:07:41.800 --> 00:07:48.170
Jon Sabes: But it's some really cool skiing involved. It's all volcanic, very interesting kind of old school.

58
00:07:48.888 --> 00:07:53.070
Jack Graham: Really, really interesting mountain culture down there. Yeah, that's good.

59
00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:55.649
Jack Graham: Yeah, definitely keen to experience that.

60
00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.620
Jack Graham: Sweet you ready to get into it.

61
00:07:59.940 --> 00:08:00.930
Jon Sabes: Absolutely.

62
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.530
Jack Graham: John, thanks for coming on the Podcast.

63
00:08:04.170 --> 00:08:05.809
Jon Sabes: Great to be here, Jack. Thank you.

64
00:08:06.070 --> 00:08:13.960
Jack Graham: I want to start with just how much I appreciate you. And writing this book, a lot of self-help books come from a place of

65
00:08:14.080 --> 00:08:42.550
Jack Graham: success, which is great, like you definitely want to learn from people, from success. But, as you said in this book, you sort of started writing it. When you know your mom got sick and you're almost questioning longevity and your humanity type thing. So it really comes through in the book. So it's really nice to get that perspective and self-help from somebody that's in that situation. So it really comes through. So again, I appreciate that. But really I really feel it when I'm reading it. So it's nice.

66
00:08:43.710 --> 00:08:48.146
Jon Sabes: Thank you. I I really appreciate that gives me goosebumps.

67
00:08:49.180 --> 00:08:54.552
Jon Sabes: I've I've been. I've had a lot of positive feedback from this book and

68
00:08:55.390 --> 00:08:59.370
Jon Sabes: it's it's been a great journey, you know. I wanted to write something

69
00:09:00.580 --> 00:09:17.870
Jon Sabes: about longevity, and particularly the financial services industry. I'm a serial entrepreneur and been working in this space, but I through my journey. As I write about the book, I came to appreciate so much more about biology, and I felt as though I had something to share about that. And

70
00:09:18.090 --> 00:09:29.679
Jon Sabes: it's been wonderful to get positive feedback responses from folks who have read that book and said, Wow, that really is a. It's a great read. Thanks for writing it. So yeah, I appreciate that.

71
00:09:29.850 --> 00:09:34.220
Jack Graham: And I hope this conversation inspires people to go out, grab it and have a read.

72
00:09:34.780 --> 00:09:39.550
Jack Graham: So let's start with, why did you write the book. What inspired you to write it?

73
00:09:40.900 --> 00:09:52.036
Jon Sabes: Yeah. I well, originally, what inspired me to to write the book was sort of my I'm again a serial entrepreneur, financial services, longevity, and I was really

74
00:09:52.680 --> 00:10:00.720
Jon Sabes: baffled by the financial services. Industry's kind of ignorance

75
00:10:01.040 --> 00:10:10.530
Jon Sabes: as to how their their products and services are so tied to our longevity. You know how long we're we're on this planet. And the role of money

76
00:10:10.910 --> 00:10:15.910
Jon Sabes: and the different strategies and products that they sell. And all these things, and I was just sort of

77
00:10:16.462 --> 00:10:21.569
Jon Sabes: I really wanted to write something about that but as you said.

78
00:10:22.114 --> 00:10:26.680
Jon Sabes: when I started writing and I was starting my next business. My mom got sick.

79
00:10:26.890 --> 00:10:35.060
Jon Sabes: and so it really caused me to rethink or reappraise how I even how I even thought of longevity. And

80
00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:45.530
Jon Sabes: you know I cared for mom, for you know, 6 months. And you know, she she had said, you know my life's been a dream. I don't want to do chemotherapy. I'm I'm comfortable. And

81
00:10:46.100 --> 00:10:52.679
Jon Sabes: I was like, Wow, you know, it brought longevity home. So personal to me and and

82
00:10:52.970 --> 00:11:06.159
Jon Sabes: longevity. It just is this invaluable asset that we all have, and like a lot of things that we we take for granted. And so how to think about that and how to.

83
00:11:06.490 --> 00:11:07.350
Jon Sabes: you know.

84
00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:25.859
Jon Sabes: perhaps build a life better in a way, so that when you're at end of life you can look back and say, my life's been a dream. That's a that's an admirable goal for all of us, you know, no matter what journey you're on. If if you can look back and say that man, you you're there! That's it.

85
00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:26.450
Jack Graham: Yeah.

86
00:11:26.570 --> 00:11:37.360
Jack Graham: 100%. That gives me goosebumps. And that's that's why I do this just to help people live a long, healthy, happy life. So they can say that at the end. That's that's amazing.

87
00:11:37.550 --> 00:11:38.810
Jack Graham: So

88
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:46.240
Jack Graham: can you remember, like your perspective of longevity before you started writing this book, and what your perspective is now.

89
00:11:50.100 --> 00:12:04.780
Jon Sabes: It's a funny question. Yeah, I can. You know. Longevity for me before writing the book was it was several things, but it was probabilities. It was actuarial tables, it was math.

90
00:12:05.309 --> 00:12:22.769
Jon Sabes: It was also again, through my career. It also became something about biology. And this this biological machine as I describe it, this miraculous biological machine of of who we are and and what we're made from.

91
00:12:22.850 --> 00:12:31.029
Jon Sabes: and what, how that, how DNA comes about, and how we have the power to influence our our genetic and expression.

92
00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:48.820
Jon Sabes: And just so, so that's sort of where I was at in terms of thinking about longevity just in some ways very mathematical and computational on the other side of it, in awe and amazement from a scientific sort of miraculous biological machine.

93
00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:57.795
Jon Sabes: but not personal, you know. I I would say somewhat somewhat as an observer of it, not as an experiencer of it.

94
00:13:00.537 --> 00:13:05.520
Jack Graham: And in the book I like. How you go through each look.

95
00:13:05.700 --> 00:13:06.570
Jack Graham: H!

96
00:13:07.350 --> 00:13:28.110
Jack Graham: What am I going for here like each term, and explain it so like you explain what longevity is to you like, what happiness! All that sort of stuff. So I like that because you in the book you even say you can go to a hundred people and say, What is happiness, and get a hundred different answers. So to explain it. So you can actually understand it through the book is quite nice as well.

97
00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:43.390
Jack Graham: Where was that something that you've come? Because I don't really experience that in many self-help books it's just like his happiness is. Here's how to improve it. So what was the idea of explaining each term before you started talking about them?

98
00:13:46.310 --> 00:13:55.210
Jon Sabes: You know I've been a student of self-help books for and and and self-help philosophy for decades now, and

99
00:13:56.580 --> 00:14:04.220
Jon Sabes: I rely on it. I credit it for a lot of what I've been able to manifest in my own life. I'm grateful for coming.

100
00:14:04.430 --> 00:14:09.670
Jon Sabes: you know, becoming aware of this area of philosophy or practice, and

101
00:14:10.040 --> 00:14:16.155
Jon Sabes: part of writing the book, and in the back of my mind was I wanted to

102
00:14:17.210 --> 00:14:23.753
Jon Sabes: bring a modern interpretation, if you will to some aspects of self-help or or

103
00:14:24.980 --> 00:14:40.760
Jon Sabes: personal empowerment. And so maybe it was simply, I don't know that I had an intention so much of kind of defining each term, but I I certainly wanted to lay things out so that people could know where I'm coming from, yet

104
00:14:41.560 --> 00:14:52.010
Jon Sabes: completely open minded on what their own journey was, because I know my journey isn't yours, and it's not anyone else's. And so and and I don't like to.

105
00:14:52.190 --> 00:15:18.489
Jon Sabes: you know. Hide the football, you know. I wanted to be very upfront and very practical. You know. I didn't want people guessing. Life is so challenging, and can be so difficult that I just wanted to to build a very practical blueprint by which someone could learn and grow, expand their knowledge base and and hopefully, they'll pick some things up in this book that

106
00:15:18.980 --> 00:15:23.719
Jon Sabes: can and will propel them in a in a better direction for their own life. So.

107
00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:41.769
Jack Graham: Yeah, definitely. And like, I said at the start, it definitely comes through like you can really feel it in your heart and in the mind. It's very nice. So in the book, you say, because a life without money can be as difficult as life without good health.

108
00:15:42.230 --> 00:15:48.399
Jack Graham: so can you talk about the, I guess role of money in health.

109
00:15:50.430 --> 00:16:02.110
Jon Sabes: Yeah, it's somewhat I think I write about it. It's somewhat controversial. To think about. 1st of all, it feels controversial to talk about money, talk about money in the context of health.

110
00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:14.139
Jon Sabes: But I I became very frustrated again with some of the research I was doing some of the books I would read about happiness, and how to be healthy without addressing money.

111
00:16:14.300 --> 00:16:30.680
Jon Sabes: you know, and because I I do see a connection. I got upset when I would hear Oprah Winfrey talking about. You know, some aspect of this happiness book, you know, and I'm like Oprah, you're a billionaire. I'm like my gosh, you know. No.

112
00:16:30.790 --> 00:16:37.170
Jon Sabes: come on. And and so I did want to connect those things, because I I think that

113
00:16:37.410 --> 00:16:39.290
Jon Sabes: you know. How can you think about

114
00:16:39.820 --> 00:17:02.239
Jon Sabes: being healthy. How can you think about getting the good things in life when when your rent's unpaid, your mortgage is overdue, your cars in the shop. You can't afford to get it out for repairs. You're just constantly stressed. So there's sort of that aspect of it which is a just a psychological aspect. I mean, that's a really difficult place to live.

115
00:17:04.349 --> 00:17:08.140
Jon Sabes: At the same time. There's also this

116
00:17:08.530 --> 00:17:14.530
Jon Sabes: very troubling correlation that researchers found when they studied

117
00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:31.460
Jon Sabes: how long people actually live and and correlated it to how much money they have. And it was very, very troubling that the highest income earners in the United States were outliving the lowest income earners by a decade or more of pure life.

118
00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:44.999
Jon Sabes: So so that is just absolutely troubling. And and it's something kind of when it came out from the Brookings Institute. They want just kind of wanted to bury it, because it was just like it's just so ugly.

119
00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:56.219
Jon Sabes: And then there's the physiological things that happen to your body when you're under stress. Because of money, you know you, you just you're firing on all these sort of negative.

120
00:17:56.865 --> 00:17:57.935
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I

121
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:14.839
Jon Sabes: hormones and and chemicals, you know, just got a lot of negative reaction within your physical body that I think manifests itself in in frankly poor health which then leads to a reduction in your overall lifespan. So

122
00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:28.980
Jon Sabes: money plays an important, as we all know, and and I'm speaking to the general. Us. You know that. You know. I know there are people who can live in the woods on a can of beans, and and I know there are people

123
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:41.450
Jon Sabes: incredibly, who have have significant health challenges, and yet are just so inspirational and happy and and inspire us. And I'm just sort of sort of the general us, the general, me

124
00:18:42.128 --> 00:18:44.639
Jon Sabes: and and so that's kind of

125
00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:47.939
Jon Sabes: who I'm speaking to, and and where I see that connection.

126
00:18:49.290 --> 00:19:11.629
Jack Graham: As a Pt. Here in Melbourne I've worked with different demographics. So people with not much money, people with a lot of money. More than that, you know they need, and they don't have to worry about a thing. But it's like money isn't the thing that makes them healthy. It's those habits and all that sort of stuff. So whether you got $10 or 100 million dollars, it's those habits, and it's just, I guess, that

127
00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:19.750
Jack Graham: the more money you got can bring those healthier habits out further and improve your life. Would that be a way of looking at it?

128
00:19:20.110 --> 00:19:37.940
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I mean, I think anyone who's, generally speaking, in Pt, right? I just say, you know, you have to have enough. So what's enough is for you to decide. You know you have to have your needs taken care of some. So you have shelter and some basic food. But after that, you know, it's sort of like

129
00:19:38.360 --> 00:19:52.560
Jon Sabes: increments of betterment, so to speak. And I think after that, you know, it's to your to your point. It's about wanting to be healthy or having a desire or an intention to be healthy. So so I'm really kind of just connect. And I'm also

130
00:19:52.690 --> 00:19:55.190
Jon Sabes: connecting money in terms of work.

131
00:19:55.600 --> 00:20:11.749
Jon Sabes: I'm an entrepreneur again. So it's a as an entrepreneur and success in business. And how do you get what you want out of life, and and oftentimes it takes money to get those things. So how do you do that? And so that's where I'm writing. Kind of more. Extend

132
00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:21.000
Jon Sabes: more into that phase of it, if you will, in in self realization and getting everything you want out of life for as long as possible.

133
00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:34.230
Jack Graham: So you've been around a lot of people and done a lot of different things within life and business and all that sort of stuff. So where do you find people are going wrong with that connection between the money and longevity, health and all that sort of stuff.

134
00:20:36.880 --> 00:21:02.750
Jon Sabes: Well, I think it's it's it's certainly they're going wrong all over the place. It's I mean, you know, it's there's just there's just trade offs, you know. I mean, I I've listened to you know your podcast. And and you do a great job and and talking about just for example alcohol, or you know, it's like people love to have drinks and drinks and drinks and drinks, and just it's like there's a trade off there between.

135
00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:11.019
Jon Sabes: I'm not talking about money, but just that trade off of of of good health, you know. You want that good health for as

136
00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:18.179
Jon Sabes: particularly as you get older, too, thinking about so where I think most people are are missing. It, so to speak, is thinking about

137
00:21:18.770 --> 00:21:28.629
Jon Sabes: that. That lifespan and health span kind of tension, right? So, lifespans, how long we're alive. Health span is how long we're alive with living without chronic disease.

138
00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:33.340
Jon Sabes: And and so where I think most people are getting it wrong is

139
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:38.100
Jon Sabes: they're going to live. Generally speaking, people are going to live a long time.

140
00:21:38.110 --> 00:22:06.959
Jon Sabes: and those last 2 decades of your life can be extraordinary decades, provided what you take care of yourself. You know you're not stressed for money. You've taken care of this amazing body, because when you're in those late latter years. You know you're just. You're not as robust in all ways as you used to be, so I think that's where people could do a better job is. I think I write about it as

141
00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:08.290
Jon Sabes: you know.

142
00:22:09.210 --> 00:22:13.100
Jon Sabes: What would your 90 year old self tell you to do today

143
00:22:13.380 --> 00:22:22.837
Jon Sabes: so that you they'd give you a big hug, you know, like, Give you a big, warm hug, man. Thanks for doing that when you're 40 or 50 or 60, because I'm over here at 90,

144
00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:49.429
Jon Sabes: and life's difficult, you know, and it's got its own challenges. But, man, I'm so glad you did that, because it's bringing a smile to my face. I have tranquillity. I have peace of mind, because again, that's where you get to that place where your life's been a dream, because we all have recency bias. Right? So it's it's those last years. And and so how do we prepare for those latter years? In a way, when when we're more vulnerable.

145
00:22:49.460 --> 00:22:58.510
Jon Sabes: We have less capacity to do the things we used to do, so that we're in in the best position to get the most out of, you know, a couple of decades of life.

146
00:22:58.770 --> 00:23:03.380
Jack Graham: So what do you think people should do to prepare for those later years.

147
00:23:05.930 --> 00:23:06.550
Jon Sabes: Wow!

148
00:23:07.695 --> 00:23:08.220
Jack Graham: Well.

149
00:23:08.552 --> 00:23:17.190
Jon Sabes: You know. You know, I think. Take a minute 1st of all, and think about think about your older self. You you know that person

150
00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:21.839
Jon Sabes: better than you might expect. You know you're you're sitting with them today.

151
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.972
Jon Sabes: So so take a minute and ask yourself that question,

152
00:23:26.930 --> 00:23:32.469
Jon Sabes: and recognize that this longevity, this this time that we have is precious.

153
00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:44.740
Jon Sabes: And so then how do we? How? How should I? Could I take steps to to do better. You know. I like to say you can. You can and should be compounding in every aspect of your life.

154
00:23:45.140 --> 00:24:09.010
Jon Sabes: So just like we learn about compounding and in your investing you should be investing and compounding your investing. That's smart things to do, but same in your health. You should be investing in that health and compounding that you should be investing in your relationships and compounding them. So you should be investing all aspects in a way that is so, you're growing and expanding into it.

155
00:24:09.532 --> 00:24:14.590
Jon Sabes: So that's that's a a broad way, I think of thinking about it, and then you can go into each

156
00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:44.519
Jon Sabes: piece of it, but but broadly right. It's movement and or the physicality of this body. It's what am I putting in my body? Am I eating wisely? Is it? How much purpose do I have? You know? Am I? What am I doing, and why am I getting up and and each day? And and then, finally, who am I connecting with and staying connected with right? So those are your 4 areas and making sure you're you're taking a positive step in each each one of those each and every day, to the extent you can.

157
00:24:44.770 --> 00:24:49.090
Jack Graham: In the book you talk about how podcasts is always

158
00:24:49.340 --> 00:25:02.770
Jack Graham: asks a question of what would you tell your younger self? And then you flip that around like, what would you ask your older self? And I think that as a side note that's perfect to wrap that up.

159
00:25:02.890 --> 00:25:10.030
Jack Graham: And I think it's a good idea for everybody like you just said like, what would your 90 year old self? What would they want you to be doing now?

160
00:25:10.390 --> 00:25:16.689
Jack Graham: And I think that's a great idea. I really like that. And I'm going to steal that for my own podcast. Own episode.

161
00:25:17.330 --> 00:25:18.289
Jack Graham: Yeah, it's good.

162
00:25:18.520 --> 00:25:21.669
Jack Graham: You talk about leverage anchors in the book.

163
00:25:23.150 --> 00:25:23.810
Jon Sabes: Yeah.

164
00:25:23.810 --> 00:25:27.510
Jack Graham: At each and at each chapter. Can you just explain those a little bit more.

165
00:25:28.060 --> 00:25:58.050
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I coined a phrase called leverage anchors. And these are points. You know, we all know a concept of leverage. Right? We've been on a teeter totter when we were a kid, and it's that that teeter totter. It goes up and down. You put a little bit of weight, and you get a big. So leverage is a key, you know, instrument right in in putting a small amount of effort in getting a big result. And so what I tried to do was identify those. And I and I write a lot about this, which is, how do you?

166
00:25:58.570 --> 00:26:15.329
Jon Sabes: How do you think small? How do you act small? You know the saying, how do you swallow a whale? One bite at a time? But really, also, you know, where? Where are those places where a small amount of energy or effort results in a larger or disproportionate gain.

167
00:26:15.490 --> 00:26:16.800
Jon Sabes: And so I

168
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:35.472
Jon Sabes: I summarize that as leverage anchors, as as points where small inputs provide disproportionate or exponential points of gain. And so at the end of each chapter I summarized each chapter, and I kind of laid those out. And and I I describe those as guideposts, you know.

169
00:26:35.990 --> 00:26:47.760
Jon Sabes: if you think about if you ever like, hiked or explored, and you're out in the or even just traveling. You know, if you have a guide post that you know you're heading in the right direction.

170
00:26:48.490 --> 00:26:58.240
Jon Sabes: you you don't have to worry about every single step, you know. If you can see something out in that distance which you know is in the right direction, you can. You can keep going.

171
00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:01.110
Jon Sabes: And and you can be confident that

172
00:27:01.280 --> 00:27:10.780
Jon Sabes: the result is is not only you'll get there, but again, with these leverage anchors you're gonna compound this this sort of side benefit that you're trying to.

173
00:27:11.190 --> 00:27:19.740
Jon Sabes: You'd like to expand along your journey because, you know, there's life is a journey. There is no destination.

174
00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:27.463
Jack Graham: Hmm, yeah, I like that again. Really good. Easy to understand. In the book comes through.

175
00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:34.359
Jack Graham: there's so many different things I want to talk about with you. So.

176
00:27:34.360 --> 00:27:35.160
Jon Sabes: Go ahead!

177
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.029
Jack Graham: You talk about failing in the book

178
00:27:37.060 --> 00:27:51.289
Jack Graham: in regards to I talk about failing as well like. If people aren't doing anything, then they're not failing. So I always say go and fail more, because I know that then they're going out trying different things, trying to improve that.

179
00:27:51.300 --> 00:28:10.749
Jack Graham: And you use a lot of different examples of entrepreneurs through time, how they've just gone out, and it's only a failure if you think it's a failure. So is there any sort of. I guess stories that you can share about your life that you've overcome, like maybe it was a failure. But you know again you've moved on. You've learned from it, and all that sort of stuff.

180
00:28:12.270 --> 00:28:17.735
Jon Sabes: Oh, yes, I mean I I've had my share of of failures for sure. And

181
00:28:19.230 --> 00:28:25.790
Jon Sabes: gosh! Can I? Can I pull in a specific example of failure. You know I've I guess

182
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:34.079
Jon Sabes: you know it's the phrase right from the the Navy seals. Right failure is, and failure until you accept it as such.

183
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.129
Jack Graham: And that's a very important.

184
00:28:36.590 --> 00:28:43.840
Jon Sabes: Thing to learn. And I, as I write about as an entrepreneur. That's a very challenging, you know, concept.

185
00:28:43.950 --> 00:28:52.059
Jon Sabes: because we as entrepreneurs, we we work and we work and we work. And sometimes I, you know, cite several examples where you know

186
00:28:52.890 --> 00:29:12.420
Jon Sabes: the business or the situation was at its darkest moment, and you see no possible way for it to potentially succeed. And yet somehow, sometimes it does. And so where? Where does that happen? And how do you recognize? That is a very difficult challenge for for a lot of folks?

187
00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:15.210
Jon Sabes: I guess, for me.

188
00:29:16.990 --> 00:29:17.680
Jon Sabes: Hmm!

189
00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:21.910
Jon Sabes: I think of

190
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:32.709
Jon Sabes: I do. I can't, I can't. And I don't really want to speak to any one specific specific failure. Only because I I feel like I've learned

191
00:29:32.970 --> 00:29:53.190
Jon Sabes: from each and every failure, you know, and I think that's something that that is the most important thing that there is what's called a seed of equivalent benefit of every failure which all that really means is that within the failure within the challenge there is a seed. There is something to be gained.

192
00:29:53.690 --> 00:30:05.490
Jon Sabes: and the question is, can you get it? Can you find it? And how do you get it? And and then and then that's a leverage point right? Because within that failure you're going there is something to be gained.

193
00:30:05.590 --> 00:30:23.789
Jon Sabes: And what I also have learned is that the faster you start looking for the seed of equivalent benefit within a failure the faster you find it, and you put it to work. So I guess that would be my biggest kind of takeaway that I've learned about failure for me, which is, if you experience failure.

194
00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:33.249
Jon Sabes: think of, recognize it, but also look for the seed of equivalent benefit, because it does exist in in each and every failure.

195
00:30:33.610 --> 00:30:36.520
Jack Graham: Yeah, and 100% 100%.

196
00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:48.679
Jack Graham: That's great. But in those times it's very hard to sort of, I guess. Remove yourself from those failures like you said. Sometimes things are just dark pressures building.

197
00:30:48.840 --> 00:30:50.719
Jack Graham: So is there a way that

198
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:54.209
Jack Graham: I guess just me asking you for advice.

199
00:30:54.210 --> 00:30:54.610
Jon Sabes: Yeah.

200
00:30:54.610 --> 00:30:58.179
Jack Graham: Is there a way in those moments that you can remove yourself and try and learn

201
00:30:58.390 --> 00:31:02.800
Jack Graham: like what's failing? How do I learn from those situations.

202
00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:10.490
Jon Sabes: That is a that is a really difficult thing to do. You know, my my son, he's a painter.

203
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:19.680
Jon Sabes: And he he said to me when you know we were talking about this topic, and and he said, You know some of the greatest masters.

204
00:31:20.270 --> 00:31:27.190
Jon Sabes: painters, artists that we look at today died as complete. Abject failures.

205
00:31:27.530 --> 00:31:28.170
Jack Graham: Hmm.

206
00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:33.980
Jon Sabes: Now that to me is so stunning and so like.

207
00:31:34.820 --> 00:31:43.369
Jon Sabes: I don't even know what to say, you know. Should should Van Gogh at the who, at the time when he passed, have stopped painting because

208
00:31:43.590 --> 00:32:05.521
Jon Sabes: he wasn't considered a success. And yet here we are, you know, decades centuries later, and we look back and and and cite it as genius as mastery. So I I don't know. I mean, that's that's a really difficult question. That that is a very personal calculus

209
00:32:08.270 --> 00:32:09.710
Jon Sabes: for me.

210
00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:16.459
Jon Sabes: I think you just have to weigh. What am I risking? Am I willing to risk

211
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:27.159
Jon Sabes: the pain and suffering that this is putting me through because there's consequences right? There's trade-offs for everything. So if your business is constantly

212
00:32:27.300 --> 00:32:29.800
Jon Sabes: challenged and failing, and it just.

213
00:32:30.750 --> 00:32:34.100
Jon Sabes: you just don't know but but it

214
00:32:34.790 --> 00:32:41.750
Jon Sabes: I don't know. You know. I I just everyone that's a personal calculus, you know, and and and

215
00:32:41.980 --> 00:32:45.229
Jon Sabes: the points of light look for me. What I would do

216
00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:55.640
Jon Sabes: is I just get outside. I'd start walking, and I'd start moving when the pressure's hard, when things don't feel like they're working out the way you want them to.

217
00:32:55.970 --> 00:33:09.410
Jon Sabes: You know you, you need to recognize that the only thing you have control over is this, okay? So get control over this, and I'm point for those listening. I'm pointing to my my head. So you gotta get control of that head.

218
00:33:09.970 --> 00:33:24.359
Jon Sabes: point it in the direction you want, and continue moving forward and know that the next day is coming. The sun's gonna rise again. And for me, what helped a lot was getting outside and moving, you know, putting some positive

219
00:33:24.750 --> 00:33:44.749
Jon Sabes: what I call positive brain food things that you know. Give me positive affirmations. Put that in my headphones, put that on my, my, you know, listen to this podcast. And go walk, go, bike, just get that body to breathe oxygen and and recognize that I got to get control of this head, point my mind towards what I want.

220
00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:50.479
Jon Sabes: and continue taking the steps that I want to do, because this is what I believe in.

221
00:33:51.830 --> 00:33:52.900
Jack Graham: For me.

222
00:33:53.250 --> 00:34:20.599
Jack Graham: Whenever that situation comes up I tend to go for a surf, because out in the waves you realize that the waves don't care about your life. They're always going to be there next day. They're going to be there. They just keep rolling through day after day, wave after wave, and it just gives me that peace of mind that I need to remove myself. And the world's going to keep going like I think it's just like you said with the pain is, I think it might just be perspective of how you're looking at your life.

223
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:22.909
Jack Graham: whether you're failing or not.

224
00:34:24.940 --> 00:34:27.990
Jon Sabes: That's right. That's right. Yeah, it it really. It's

225
00:34:29.870 --> 00:34:49.229
Jon Sabes: You aren't failing until you decide you. You want to move on. And it's not fail. It's not necessarily failure, you know. It's a it's a i always say, I mean, you're in control, and you can. You can learn from it, and you can benefit, and you're not done. The narrative is isn't complete

226
00:34:50.010 --> 00:35:01.360
Jon Sabes: until it's all over. So so you're always in control of this narrative. There's so there's so many examples of people who have continued to rebuild and build their narrative in a way that

227
00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:16.300
Jon Sabes: it just seemed there's there was no way. I mean Donald Trump, I mean, let's not get political. But I mean, like this guy, how he built this narrative off of just are you kidding me? So? I mean, that's it's it's an example of how people

228
00:35:16.530 --> 00:35:23.310
Jon Sabes: can, just under incredibly difficult odds and challenges, build narrative self narratives.

229
00:35:23.310 --> 00:35:27.669
Jack Graham: And let's build on that. You talk about moving rocks in the book.

230
00:35:27.990 --> 00:35:34.290
Jack Graham: Where does my notes on that? We all have rocks in our life.

231
00:35:35.100 --> 00:35:40.369
Jack Graham: What are some of our example like? What are some examples of rocks

232
00:35:41.150 --> 00:35:43.660
Jack Graham: in regards to what you're writing in the book? So.

233
00:35:46.110 --> 00:36:06.030
Jon Sabes: I write about moving big rocks as as sort of developing new habits. I analogize, you know, to to obtain a new habit, a positive habit. Ideally right. It's it's like moving a big, heavy rock up a hill, and

234
00:36:06.330 --> 00:36:27.340
Jon Sabes: the more entrenched you are, the heavier the rock and the steeper the slope. So it takes. It takes a lot of effort, you know, so I don't. My point of that is, it is to recognize any change you want to make in life requires energy, you know it. It requires resilience and persistence.

235
00:36:28.188 --> 00:36:31.659
Jon Sabes: To achieve sort of better states.

236
00:36:31.830 --> 00:36:32.960
Jon Sabes: And

237
00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:58.669
Jon Sabes: and so I'm always trying to move those rocks around to those better states. I I talk a lot about the blue zones I like. I like this notion of blue zones, and I like this concept of setting up my environment in a way that helps me to move the rocks, to reduce the steep of the slope, you know, to to reduce the the length at which I have to carry a rock to get this new better habit in place.

238
00:36:59.220 --> 00:37:15.229
Jon Sabes: So if I'm focused on eating, better cleaning out my pantry of the salty sugary foods that I can't help myself consuming when the sun goes down and the TV comes on, the screen comes on. Getting those out of my pantry is is a way of

239
00:37:15.720 --> 00:37:21.030
Jon Sabes: reducing the slope and shortening the the length at which I

240
00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:26.970
Jon Sabes: need to move my rock to get to a new place of healthier eating.

241
00:37:27.180 --> 00:37:30.050
Jack Graham: As I was reading that part in the book.

242
00:37:30.220 --> 00:37:41.780
Jack Graham: Like for me again as a personal trainer, it's hard for some people to identify their own rocks in their own life. So how have you identified those rocks, and, like you said, reduce the slope.

243
00:37:43.040 --> 00:37:55.609
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I'll go back to the blue zone stuff. I I really like the construct that Dan Buettner and the Blue zones put together for folks, and I I walk through that in several examples.

244
00:37:56.332 --> 00:38:05.379
Jon Sabes: This idea of again movement and and eating with wisely and living with purpose and connecting with others, and

245
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:28.829
Jon Sabes: and sort of looking through through things in construct. I I recognize that I, for example, socially as a I mean, my work provides me a lot of my social interaction when when the work goes away, and in particular, as as men age, that social circle constricts, it gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And and we need to maintain that social

246
00:38:30.380 --> 00:38:44.880
Jon Sabes: circle. And and and I and I want to maintain my familiar relationship. So I need to work against those relationships. So that's a way for me to recognize. These are rocks that I I need to change my my personal

247
00:38:46.241 --> 00:38:48.700
Jon Sabes: default behavior is to retreat.

248
00:38:49.190 --> 00:38:54.520
Jon Sabes: Sit with my dogs, look at my phone, do some, lift some weights.

249
00:38:54.790 --> 00:38:57.859
Jon Sabes: rinse it, drink some coffee, rinse and repeat.

250
00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:02.410
Jon Sabes: I I recognize that I need to intentionally

251
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:07.729
Jon Sabes: and take action to maintain my relationships with my friends.

252
00:39:08.090 --> 00:39:15.210
Jon Sabes: Better my relationships with my kids, strengthen my relationship with my wife and my my now, father.

253
00:39:15.390 --> 00:39:24.770
Jon Sabes: those are things that are that give life meaning. And so that's how I've gone through to recognize which rocks I need to move and and stand to improve. There.

254
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.410
Jack Graham: Hmm, so it's almost like

255
00:39:27.660 --> 00:39:33.620
Jack Graham: learning about the things. And then understanding that. I need to improve those certain aspects of my life.

256
00:39:36.105 --> 00:39:41.630
Jack Graham: Yeah. So also building on on top of that as well, like risk.

257
00:39:42.030 --> 00:39:44.850
Jack Graham: talk about a little bit about risk in the book.

258
00:39:45.230 --> 00:39:49.280
Jack Graham: And again, in regards to money life, all that sort of stuff like

259
00:39:49.720 --> 00:39:53.320
Jack Graham: you. You spoke about how Elon Musk

260
00:39:53.450 --> 00:40:14.199
Jack Graham: risked all his capital to invest in Tesla like he ended up sleeping on a couch just because he had no money left. So that's a big risk to take in a business. At what point should be people be taking risks, I guess, with money to invest, grow, compound, all that sort of stuff, but maybe as well as well as money. But health and wellness as well.

261
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:17.832
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I mean,

262
00:40:20.210 --> 00:40:35.139
Jon Sabes: risk with. Yeah, I look, I I engaged in lots of risky behavior. I mean, there's no question. Right? I mean extreme sports. I love them, you know, and adrenaline junkie for sure. I think the the message is

263
00:40:35.470 --> 00:40:38.749
Jon Sabes: when it comes to finances and financial risk.

264
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:45.649
Jon Sabes: When you're younger, you know you. You've got an opportunity there to be to be riskier

265
00:40:45.960 --> 00:41:06.969
Jon Sabes: at the same time, as you grow older you can again. It's risk is all a personal calculus. We've know guys who do wingsuits and do all that business. And like, Whoa, okay? And there are other people who would just say, Well, I I don't want to go in that ocean. I don't even want to swim in the ocean because of it could be a shark. It's like Whoa. So again, very much a personal calculus

266
00:41:08.550 --> 00:41:15.099
Jon Sabes: But when it comes to money, and on being an entrepreneur and investing, I I what I would suggest is.

267
00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:19.650
Jon Sabes: yeah, when you're younger, there's opportunity to take risk

268
00:41:19.850 --> 00:41:25.290
Jon Sabes: to take more risk. But certainly, as you reach different phases of your life, you're that

269
00:41:25.580 --> 00:41:31.640
Jon Sabes: be cognizant of your tolerance for risk, will and does change. So you don't want to be

270
00:41:32.070 --> 00:41:47.070
Jon Sabes: just sort of I'll call it just a knucklehead about it, and just keep doing the same behavior you did when you were 20 years old to be 50. You know there's people who do it, you know. They continue just to take risk and risk with their health, too, drinking and partying. And you're just like Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! So

271
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:54.939
Jon Sabes: I think. Just recognize your your risk. Profile is changing throughout your life. You get to a place where others depend on you.

272
00:41:55.512 --> 00:41:58.230
Jon Sabes: where you depend on others, where

273
00:41:58.390 --> 00:42:04.742
Jon Sabes: and you. Just you really just be eyes wide open and and think of I I write a lot about

274
00:42:05.410 --> 00:42:21.710
Jon Sabes: you know, a probability analysis, you know. Think of the probabilities of the outcome you want with the behavior you're engaging in. I want a really successful business. So I want to as an entrepreneur. But I don't want to change my lifestyle. So you better.

275
00:42:22.180 --> 00:42:30.159
Jon Sabes: You know know how much money you can go at risk before you're gonna start getting those trade offs, and you can do that differently at 30 as 40 or 50, so.

276
00:42:30.560 --> 00:42:31.210
Jack Graham: Yeah.

277
00:42:31.410 --> 00:42:32.090
Jack Graham: Hmm!

278
00:42:32.530 --> 00:42:44.039
Jack Graham: You've taught. Excuse me, you've spoken about movement. A lot. So growing up was exercise a thing like in the gym outdoors. What were you doing as a kid? And how have you brought that into

279
00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:45.529
Jack Graham: your life? Now.

280
00:42:46.980 --> 00:42:48.000
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I think

281
00:42:49.330 --> 00:43:08.719
Jon Sabes: movement has always been something I just have naturally gravitated towards. I had the benefit of going out to college at the University of Colorado. We're in the mountains all the time, I mean, I just the more I could be outside and moving. It seemed as though the happier I was, and so that positive feedback loop always kept me moving.

282
00:43:10.990 --> 00:43:18.570
Jon Sabes: When I had our. When, when my wife and I had our 1st child, I started needing more focused movement. And I think that's something we

283
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:30.330
Jon Sabes: and by that I mean, I started running, and I did my 1st marathon at that point. And then that moved me into triathlons. And I ended up doing ironman stuff. And I went to ultra distance.

284
00:43:30.500 --> 00:43:35.720
Jon Sabes: Today I'm moving into strength training. And so I've changed. I'm changing my movements.

285
00:43:36.294 --> 00:43:41.389
Jon Sabes: Through different phases of of my life, for for different reasons.

286
00:43:41.730 --> 00:44:09.429
Jon Sabes: I think the point of all of this, and is that whatever whatever you're doing, you just have to keep this body moving. Your body is an energy system. You're taking in food as energy. It needs to dissipate the energy. The movement allows that energy to flow out naturally and allows for for better health a better health profile to exist. So I'm all about movement. Whatever type of movement

287
00:44:09.490 --> 00:44:12.090
Jon Sabes: anyone really gravitates towards

288
00:44:12.170 --> 00:44:19.610
Jon Sabes: to continue doing that, so that you get this lifestyle of movement that leads to a to better health.

289
00:44:20.970 --> 00:44:26.530
Jack Graham: What was the Iron Man like? Sorry, I just have to go back to that. That's where did you do? The ironman.

290
00:44:27.130 --> 00:44:29.379
Jon Sabes: Oh, I did the Ironman.

291
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:38.050
Jon Sabes: Madison, Wisconsin. So I've done 5 Ironmans out of. I grew up in in the twin cities in Minnesota, Minneapolis with that

292
00:44:38.170 --> 00:44:42.219
Jon Sabes: Madison Wisconsin was the closest ironman event at the time.

293
00:44:42.700 --> 00:44:49.939
Jon Sabes: And yeah, iron man was was awesome like, I just loved Iron Man. I I

294
00:44:50.110 --> 00:45:05.119
Jon Sabes: I'm someone who I've never had this a strava. I've never had a power meter on my bike. I've never had a I just love to move, and if I feel good I I run faster, and if I feel don't feel so great I run slower. But I keep moving.

295
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:14.459
Jon Sabes: What? What I learned from iron man was that seemingly impossible challenges become possible.

296
00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:34.180
Jon Sabes: And that's a really and I think endurance or any athlete. I think athleticism, even if you're not an athlete. I didn't grow up, you know, being a really super high performing athlete in school and high school and college. But but I got into athleticism a little bit as as a young adult, and

297
00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:36.290
Jon Sabes: what I learned from that is

298
00:45:36.730 --> 00:45:51.720
Jon Sabes: athleticism, or competing in these types of events allows you to build this resilience muscle we talked about where it feels like you want to fail. It feels like you want to quit. But if you just keep moving a little bit further.

299
00:45:52.400 --> 00:46:02.449
Jon Sabes: Suddenly you feel better. You can keep pedaling, or you can keep. You can start running again on the Marathon, I mean. So like that that's a provides a controlled environment

300
00:46:03.220 --> 00:46:11.999
Jon Sabes: to develop this muscle, this memory muscle, and people would always say, Well, what are you training for next year? For me. It was always about training for life.

301
00:46:12.120 --> 00:46:30.200
Jon Sabes: You know, I needed to build this resiliency muscle in for life because life is challenging. I'm going to hit roadblocks. Things aren't going to go my way. Failure is going to happen. Threats are going to show themselves, and I have to somehow persevere through them.

302
00:46:30.300 --> 00:46:33.369
Jon Sabes: Iron man for me was a terrific

303
00:46:34.950 --> 00:46:38.020
Jon Sabes: playing board, so to speak, to develop that muscle.

304
00:46:38.170 --> 00:46:55.580
Jon Sabes: and not only that, to also develop this thing called the heart, both in terms of intention and and the physicality that one needs over a lifetime. And and you need a strong heart to keep the cardiovascular system moving. And so.

305
00:46:56.839 --> 00:47:00.169
Jon Sabes: that's yeah. That's how I feel about iron. Man.

306
00:47:00.540 --> 00:47:03.360
Jack Graham: And a hundred percent. Just that

307
00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:12.790
Jack Graham: I don't think people realise the benefits, not just physical but mental benefits, of pushing yourself, exercising in that way

308
00:47:13.660 --> 00:47:14.200
Jack Graham: 5.

309
00:47:14.200 --> 00:47:27.409
Jon Sabes: 10 Ks. It doesn't need it doesn't need to be ironman. You know it. For me it was just sequentially I I had never I had never! I didn't even know how to swim the first.st The 1st triathlon I did was a half iron.

310
00:47:27.680 --> 00:47:32.680
Jon Sabes: I didn't even know how to swim. I did the side stroke for 1.2 miles.

311
00:47:32.980 --> 00:47:33.280
Jack Graham: Okay.

312
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:50.369
Jon Sabes: I did the side stroke. I was the second to the last guy out of the water, and the the other guy behind me. Right was they? They picked him up and put him in a wheelchair, you know. So so like. That was my 1st experience with Triathlon. And and so from there. I just kept going. And I just.

313
00:47:50.570 --> 00:48:00.150
Jon Sabes: you know, just learn that these and I learned I could keep going. And so again, that's I would really encourage people, just a 5 k or a 10 K just.

314
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:14.819
Jon Sabes: And here's the other thing about Iron man which we we just love the but you would say, Oh, look at all these people! They're so fit. There's just so incredible. I'm telling you some of the bodies that you see doing, ironman, you would just say, Are you? Are you kidding me?

315
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:20.050
Jon Sabes: It can be done. And I I always

316
00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:25.340
Jon Sabes: when I was doing them, I've stopped doing sort of the ultra stuff. Because I

317
00:48:25.490 --> 00:48:43.049
Jon Sabes: I couldn't. I could never do this. I couldn't, and I would look at them. And I and I know because of I've done them, and I've seen all the bodies, you know doing it. I'm like, oh, but you can. And so it's it's again. It's just it's it's just being able to open your mind to the possibilities of of life.

318
00:48:45.067 --> 00:48:47.539
Jack Graham: 100% So

319
00:48:48.160 --> 00:48:58.559
Jack Graham: if you were to get power over every human, you're elected president of the world, and you could get everybody to do one thing, a physical thing.

320
00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:01.619
Jack Graham: What would you get? Everybody in the world to start doing.

321
00:49:02.370 --> 00:49:03.230
Jon Sabes: Gardening.

322
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:03.904
Jack Graham: Okay?

323
00:49:04.450 --> 00:49:04.910
Jack Graham: Why?

324
00:49:04.910 --> 00:49:05.660
Jon Sabes: Gardening.

325
00:49:06.220 --> 00:49:07.260
Jon Sabes: Well, I

326
00:49:07.630 --> 00:49:14.687
Jon Sabes: gardening is a great physical exercise. I I you know I I'm a gardener. I love to garden.

327
00:49:15.630 --> 00:49:36.170
Jon Sabes: but it also puts you in touch with nature, you know, and you start observing your natural surroundings. No matter where you are in your own, you can have a garden, no matter where you are, you start thinking about sunlight, you start thinking about rain. You start thinking about the weather you start thinking about. You see trash in a garden, and you want to go pick it up

328
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:47.180
Jon Sabes: so I would. I would I would love if everyone became a gardener. The world would be such a beautiful place, and I think people would be happier and healthier as a result.

329
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:49.220
Jack Graham: Is that something you've always done.

330
00:49:52.180 --> 00:50:06.919
Jon Sabes: I used to mow the lawn, you know. I think I think my first, st and I I always enjoyed outdoor work. I think it just goes to just being outside. But I think developing gardening just

331
00:50:07.350 --> 00:50:22.160
Jon Sabes: as I had a young family. I'm around the house on Saturdays, and so I always wanted to be around the house with my young family, and so gardening was a way for me to. I'm a busybody, too, so I can't sit still. So playing in the garden became just this natural way to

332
00:50:22.640 --> 00:50:27.489
Jon Sabes: to to busy myself. I'm also a creative. It was a way to be creative.

333
00:50:27.490 --> 00:50:27.840
Jack Graham: Good.

334
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:57.079
Jon Sabes: You start to see color you can play with what's growing and where I'm not a very good gardener, so I would. It's a lot of trial and error. You begin to appreciate the passage of time, right, the passage of seasons, the passages of years. And so I think it brings home, this grounding experience. I work in financial services where it's just paper and money and just stuff. You know, it just doesn't feel very real sometimes. So it grounds you to Mother Earth, Mother Nature.

335
00:50:57.140 --> 00:51:00.109
Jon Sabes: and it makes you very aware of your surroundings.

336
00:51:00.530 --> 00:51:05.930
Jack Graham: Is that something that your families continue doing as in the kids are still gardening, and that sort of stuff.

337
00:51:06.930 --> 00:51:24.639
Jon Sabes: You know my, so far. My kids, I I they like to watch me garden, my, my, and my, and I'm not growing right now. I don't. I'm most focused on plants and landscape and flowers. I I don't sort of. I haven't moved to sort of gardening for my tomatoes and my.

338
00:51:24.640 --> 00:51:25.250
Jack Graham: Yeah.

339
00:51:25.250 --> 00:51:43.460
Jon Sabes: My vegetable garden. So I'm mostly into flowers and landscape gardening, my son, as who again, the artist is starting to pick this up. But yeah, I think as my kids, they're young and young adults. They're busy with their so many busy things I think over. I'm hoping over time. They'll

340
00:51:43.520 --> 00:52:01.980
Jon Sabes: they certainly appreciate what I build. I love to get the reactions, but people go. Oh, my gosh, you're this garden is so beautiful sometimes they don't even know why it's built. They think I've hired a gardener, you know, and they don't even know I'm in there moving plants around and and thinking about the composition of a garden. It's a very fun thing to do.

341
00:52:02.140 --> 00:52:13.059
Jack Graham: Yeah, for sure. And again, like, what's talking about before I've moved from the country to the city. And that's 1 of the things I miss because I would grow all my own food. So

342
00:52:13.470 --> 00:52:18.879
Jack Graham: again that calling back to the country life by the ocean.

343
00:52:19.120 --> 00:52:41.699
Jack Graham: it's a good life one way I want to go with this podcast over the next, say, 12 months is learning about the blue zones. All that sort of stuff purpose, connection, all like what makes a blue zone a blue zone. But then trying to bring that into the modern world, because, you know, we don't live. It's hard to replicate those zones, and it's hard to, you know.

344
00:52:42.280 --> 00:53:00.129
Jack Graham: I don't know if it's hard. But is it hard, or is it a want? And that's what I'm trying to figure out. So how do we bring those blue zones into modern life? Is it a want? Is it hard to do? What would you get people to start doing, to live more like a blue zone, or where you think the research should go towards.

345
00:53:01.190 --> 00:53:12.559
Jon Sabes: Yeah, great question, and I think you know well deserved to point attention towards the science around the blue zones, I mean, and to your to your point. Even the blue zones themselves

346
00:53:12.810 --> 00:53:18.350
Jon Sabes: are are challenged to remain blue zones. Okinawa, Japan, for example.

347
00:53:18.530 --> 00:53:30.579
Jon Sabes: I mean, I I think sadly, today probably wouldn't qualify as a blue zone. You know they've been infiltrated with fast food, and you know all the modern conveniences, so to speak, that

348
00:53:30.790 --> 00:53:35.000
Jon Sabes: I think really take us away from having a blue zone life.

349
00:53:35.456 --> 00:53:40.080
Jon Sabes: But to your point. And I think that's what I've tried to write in the book, which is.

350
00:53:40.280 --> 00:54:03.850
Jon Sabes: we all by thinking about these blue zone, if you will, tenants, so to speak, and being intentional about them, and pointing our lives a little bit more towards them. I think we can all blue zoneify right? Our life we can make. We may all not be able to live in in a blue, a traditionally kind of blue zone, but we can certainly blue zone our life.

351
00:54:04.248 --> 00:54:29.990
Jon Sabes: And I think that's really it even goes back to gardening, which is being very cognizant of our environment, and how we can change our environment. And that means, you know, am I at a garden apartment on the north, facing? Or I'm on the 3rd floor, you know, south, facing with a big picture window, you know. It may be still a small apartment, but the difference between those 2 places is is magic.

352
00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:47.880
Jon Sabes: You may be on the end of a busy street with horns honking, or at a dead end a cul-de-sac. So it doesn't mean you have to move to a blue zone. We can all blue zoneify our lives if we know if we're thinking very intentionally about our environment.

353
00:54:47.940 --> 00:55:10.929
Jon Sabes: And what blue zones at the end of the day says. And again, I think Dan is really brilliant about. This is, how do you shape that environment in a way that makes the healthier, better choice easier, the default choice. So we're not having to rely so much on this self discipline and this intention mechanism that I think you and I. You know we. We know this from

354
00:55:11.120 --> 00:55:32.190
Jon Sabes: the all, the the workout and the training that you've done, and your career which is like that is a that takes a lot of drive. So how can we make the rest of our life kind of work just by default a little bit better, and that's that's a really that's a great life hack that I think all of us could use to again. Blue zoneify if you will, our our own lives.

355
00:55:32.970 --> 00:55:47.780
Jack Graham: Is there any like you said, with your training and all that sort of stuff, you'll never want to wear watches and track everything like. Neither am I like I tried to wear. I'm trying to track my Hrv. And improve my Hrv. Through wearables and that sort of stuff, but even I find that a bit

356
00:55:48.080 --> 00:55:53.400
Jack Graham: hard. But is there any technologies that you've used to improve like that

357
00:55:53.730 --> 00:55:55.960
Jack Graham: blue zone vibe in your life?

358
00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:00.290
Jack Graham: Is it a.

359
00:56:00.290 --> 00:56:00.710
Jon Sabes: Yeah.

360
00:56:00.710 --> 00:56:05.680
Jack Graham: Do you think technology has its place within the future to improve your life?

361
00:56:06.150 --> 00:56:10.030
Jon Sabes: Yeah, look, I mean, well, for sure, technology has.

362
00:56:10.300 --> 00:56:34.300
Jon Sabes: I mean, technology is improving all of our lives in so many ways. I mean, it's just like it's so incredible to be alive today and be able to access any and all this technology for all aspects of our life. I think when it comes to health and wellness. Setting aside sort of the the things that are coming in terms of precision, medicine, and and better understanding, this thing called the biological machine.

363
00:56:34.430 --> 00:56:39.129
Jon Sabes: When we think about interacting with technology for health and wellness, what I would say is.

364
00:56:39.680 --> 00:56:58.299
Jon Sabes: whatever works for you. You know, I mean, really some of my friends are strava driven. They just want to go out and ride because the Strava and you know they're looking at their routes, and if someone better their time, they're on that bike next the next thing. So so from my perspective again, it's sort of I'm very open minded on on.

365
00:56:59.220 --> 00:57:08.840
Jon Sabes: If there's a piece of technology that's making it more exciting or or helping you go go, do the habits that lead to health and wellness. Amazing.

366
00:57:09.460 --> 00:57:28.999
Jon Sabes: For me. I mean, it's as simple as you know, a facetime video where I can work out with my my strength trainer, no matter where I'm at in the world. I'm down in Baja, Mexico, but I'll facetime him and we'll put the phone up and we'll say, What are we doing today? I'm like, well, we did chess yesterday. We're gonna do back. Okay, let's go get to it. So for me, it's like that simple

367
00:57:29.708 --> 00:57:41.929
Jon Sabes: you know. But that's just how I'm using the technology for me. And what I would say about all of what I'm writing about doing is whatever works for you. That's the right technology.

368
00:57:42.190 --> 00:57:42.780
Jack Graham: Hmm!

369
00:57:43.160 --> 00:57:44.160
Jack Graham: And

370
00:57:44.300 --> 00:58:00.329
Jack Graham: it comes through in the book like I said, we've spoken about purpose rocks risk all that sort of stuff, and you do a really good job in the book by presenting it in a way that I can adopt in my life. So again, I appreciate that where can people find you, and the book, and all that sort of stuff.

371
00:58:00.820 --> 00:58:21.939
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I'm online. I'm on all the social media platforms. So find me wherever you like to get your social media, my website. It's John JON. Sabis, SABE. S. I've got a website, johnsabus.com. The books available on Amazon, healthy, wealthy longevity, the good things in life for as long as possible.

372
00:58:22.334 --> 00:58:46.109
Jon Sabes: You know, interact with me on social media. Find me talk to me. I've got these little journals that I've developed over the years and those are available. I've found those to be a wonderful tool. So if I think prompt journaling is a technology. And for me, that's the technology for me that has led to the greatest gains. And I've developed it over many, many years and used it.

373
00:58:46.110 --> 00:59:08.849
Jon Sabes: And so I've made it. I've been handing them out over the years, and people who have used them have loved these things. And so I'm gonna send you some down to to the land down under. So let me get some to you, Jack, and I'd love to be back on your podcast at some point in the future where you've have used these and go like, okay, this thing, you know, did or didn't work. I mean, it'd be it'd be a fun chat.

374
00:59:08.850 --> 00:59:09.250
Jack Graham: Yeah.

375
00:59:09.250 --> 00:59:10.760
Jon Sabes: More blue zones, too.

376
00:59:10.890 --> 00:59:15.499
Jack Graham: Yep, either, coming for a surf over there. I'll get you over here, and we'll do a surf trip over here

377
00:59:16.120 --> 00:59:19.149
Jack Graham: again, John. Thanks for coming on the Podcast.

378
00:59:19.490 --> 00:59:21.440
Jon Sabes: Been a pleasure, Jack. Thanks for having me.

379
00:59:22.600 --> 00:59:24.920
Jack Graham: John, thank you. That was really good.

380
00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:26.220
Jon Sabes: Thanks, man.

381
00:59:26.220 --> 00:59:32.120
Jack Graham: Getting a bit of croaky voice there, yeah. Yeah, that was unreal love that.

382
00:59:32.120 --> 00:59:38.650
Jon Sabes: Good. Oh, good man, I'm psyched. That was that was a great chat. Yeah, I was really excited to be on this

383
00:59:38.970 --> 00:59:44.130
Jon Sabes: with you, and I knew we'd have a good conversation, and and just kind of like, Yeah.

384
00:59:44.470 --> 00:59:49.089
Jack Graham: Yep, I make reels out of this for social media.

385
00:59:49.678 --> 00:59:51.890
Jack Graham: I'll tag you in them all.

386
00:59:52.490 --> 01:00:05.490
Jack Graham: I'll send you a link to a Google, Doc, if you feel comfortable, just drop a bit of B roll in there, whether it's just you in the garden, you living life. And I'll put that over, the conversation just creates a little bit more engagement on social.

387
01:00:05.490 --> 01:00:16.570
Jon Sabes: Yeah, I've I've got it. I've got all that stuff for you. So I'll I will put that in. Yeah, yeah, I've been working hard to get my, my social media stuff. So my team's like, you gotta make content. You gotta make content. I'm like, okay, okay, okay.

388
01:00:18.640 --> 01:00:19.570
Jack Graham: Yeah, it's

389
01:00:20.600 --> 01:00:32.770
Jack Graham: just another thing to add into the whole business side of things these days. Yeah, it's good fun. And that's why I do this. I love that the short form is good, but I love this long form stuff.

390
01:00:32.890 --> 01:00:33.720
Jack Graham: That's way better.

391
01:00:33.720 --> 01:00:50.750
Jon Sabes: This is a good chat. So I again appreciate you. You have some great podcasts. I've been. I will subscribe to the channel. I'll cross promote you, and we're worlds away. But you know. Keep doing what you're doing. You look great man! You look fucking strong. How old are you? What's your chronological age?

392
01:00:50.930 --> 01:00:53.010
Jack Graham: 37.

393
01:00:53.310 --> 01:00:56.179
Jon Sabes: 37 way to be. God damn

394
01:00:56.900 --> 01:01:01.770
Jon Sabes: strong, Buck! You're a big, strong buck. Holy shit!

395
01:01:01.770 --> 01:01:06.350
Jack Graham: I love life. I love moving, and I love helping people do the same.

396
01:01:06.750 --> 01:01:07.370
Jon Sabes: Yeah.

397
01:01:07.370 --> 01:01:14.319
Jack Graham: I really want to dive into those blue zones. I'm trying to get some funding for some research later in the year to go to the blue zones and.

398
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:14.870
Jon Sabes: Cool.

399
01:01:14.870 --> 01:01:15.210
Jack Graham: But.

400
01:01:15.210 --> 01:01:29.580
Jon Sabes: Well, let me know when you want to connect. I mean, I'm good friend, like I work directly with them. Yeah. So I've licensed. I've licensed their brand up here in the in North America. So I I work. They're they're from Minnesota, too. So originally.

401
01:01:29.580 --> 01:01:29.969
Jack Graham: You're right.

402
01:01:29.970 --> 01:01:42.830
Jon Sabes: That's how I know them. Yeah. So I'm very friends with Dan Buettner and his son, Danny Buettner, and I hang out with those guys all the time. And so I'm happy to connect you with them, and in any at any point, and

403
01:01:43.750 --> 01:01:50.199
Jon Sabes: and then, by the and when you come. If you want to come up to Baja, you've got an open invitation to be come up here in Baja, you know I mean

404
01:01:50.430 --> 01:01:54.000
Jon Sabes: where I I know we're on opposite season. So so you know, yeah.

405
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:55.310
Jon Sabes: you want to. You ever decide to.

406
01:01:55.310 --> 01:01:55.630
Jack Graham: How much.

407
01:01:55.630 --> 01:01:57.179
Jon Sabes: Trip. Please please do.

408
01:01:57.180 --> 01:01:59.179
Jack Graham: I'm definitely gonna take you up on that for sure.

409
01:01:59.180 --> 01:02:01.330
Jon Sabes: Cool. I'd love to host you. Yeah.

410
01:02:01.330 --> 01:02:03.509
Jack Graham: Sweet what's on? For the rest of the afternoon.

411
01:02:04.870 --> 01:02:12.189
Jon Sabes: Well, it's Friday. I'm gonna go get. I'm gonna go lift these weights right here. So I'm gonna go hit it. I'm I'm definitely into. I got my little weight. Gym right here.

412
01:02:12.190 --> 01:02:13.020
Jack Graham: Oh, yeah. Nice.

413
01:02:13.020 --> 01:02:15.239
Jon Sabes: So I'm gonna hit. I'm gonna hit. My gym.

414
01:02:15.750 --> 01:02:18.090
Jon Sabes: I'm gonna get a good workout in, and then we have a

415
01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:26.470
Jon Sabes: going up we've got. And then we're going to watch. Then I'm going to watch these big waves that come up that have coming up from a big winter storm over the weekend that's gonna really get busy here.

416
01:02:26.470 --> 01:02:28.999
Jack Graham: I was going to say. There'll be a few people out surfing it. You reckon.

417
01:02:29.550 --> 01:02:31.530
Jon Sabes: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, it's.

418
01:02:31.530 --> 01:02:32.750
Jack Graham: Awesome. It's going.

419
01:02:32.750 --> 01:02:33.270
Jon Sabes: Going on.

420
01:02:33.270 --> 01:02:35.560
Jack Graham: Send me a video on Instagram.

421
01:02:35.710 --> 01:02:36.810
Jack Graham: Okay, I'd love to see him. Yeah.

422
01:02:36.810 --> 01:02:38.949
Jon Sabes: Got it. Okay, okay, you got it.

423
01:02:38.950 --> 01:02:39.290
Jack Graham: Yeah.

424
01:02:39.290 --> 01:02:39.890
Jon Sabes: We'll do.

425
01:02:40.120 --> 01:02:41.260
Jack Graham: Alright, thanks. John!

426
01:02:41.260 --> 01:02:42.430
Jon Sabes: All right. Bro. Thanks. Man.

427
01:02:42.430 --> 01:02:43.779
Jack Graham: Chat again soon, for sure.

428
01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.200
Jon Sabes: Okay? Cheers.

429
01:02:44.200 --> 01:02:44.590
Jack Graham: Thank you.

430
01:02:44.590 --> 01:02:46.480
Jon Sabes: Yup! Be well, cheers bye.