Navigating Pain, Injury, and he Fitness Industry with Dr Joseph Gingell

Navigating Pain, Injury, and the Fitness Industry with Dr Joseph Gingell

Welcome to the latest episode of the In-situ Collective Podcast! Today, we had the pleasure of hosting Dr Joseph Gingell, an osteopath, strength & conditioning coach, and personal trainer with a wealth of knowledge and experience in personalised healthcare, pain management, recovery, and performance enhancement.

In this engaging conversation, Joseph delves into the common mistakes people make in the gym and provides valuable insights on how to avoid injury while maximising your workout potential. Drawing from his extensive background, he shares practical advice on what to do if you do find yourself injured, emphasising the importance of proper nutrition, sleep, and exercise as the foundational pillars of overall health and functionality (our kinda guy!).

We explore the impact of social media on health information dissemination and learn how to discern misinformation from reliable sources. Jo also sheds light on the nature of pain, offering essential dos and don'ts for managing and understanding pain effectively.

Whether you're a fitness enthusiast, coach, or simply seeking to improve your well-being, this episode is packed with invaluable wisdom to help you navigate your health and fitness journey with confidence.

Notes;

Find Joe on Instagram: @pain.coaching

Book a session with Joe: https://overcome-osteo.au3.cliniko.com/bookings

Website: https://www.overcomeosteo.com/

Free Pain Management Lifestyle Checklist

https://www.overcomeosteo.com/freestuff

People to follow;

Gregory Lehman

https://www.instagram.com/greglehman?igsh=MWZlbWtzYW52bXJ2NQ==

Alec Blenis

https://www.instagram.com/alecblenis?igsh=dzlsNjBzamhvN3R2

Sam Callahan

https://www.instagram.com/samuelrehab?igsh=aGw

Chapters

• 0:08 What is the biggest mistake you see people making in the gym?
• 7:30 How mindset and resiliency play a big role in pain perception and management.
• 10:00 The most effective fitness approaches.
• 14:50 How to communicate trust in the Fitness Industry.
• 21:15 The effects of social media on your health and fitness.
• 28:10 Importance of understanding health and fitness studies.
• 36:40 Importance of prioritising sleep, exercise, and nutrition for overall health and well-being.
• 43:23 The top 10 best exercises.
• 53:20 What is the difference between good pain and injuring yourself?
• 1:05:55 Effective ways to communicate to your clients.
• 1:13:40 Dr Joseph Gingell discusses ways to overcome pain and injuries

Transcript

00:00:05:05 - 00:00:35:09
Unknown
What are the biggest mistakes you see people doing in the gym? it's actually caring about the wrong things. I reckon I think that there's a really massive over emphasis on things that are the minutia of training and injury risk. And, you know, like, no one focuses on things like progressive overload or training intensity.

00:00:35:10 - 00:01:04:04
Unknown
Like, I didn't get many questions about that when I was coaching or when I have people coming into the gym or, sorry, into my clinic with pain or injury. They're always like, I know that because of the way that my hips were sitting within this certain rep of a deadlift, that that's probably what's contributed to to my soul back, and nothing to do with the fact that they hadn't deadlift it for three weeks and then have come in with a nine out of ten.

00:01:04:04 - 00:01:40:03
Unknown
So training hitting hit no one around, pretty much a one rep max. Yeah. And in terms of like, yeah, biggest mistakes that I see in the gym is just people focusing on the wrong things. because there are certain foundational principles to ensure that you're continuously progressing, like, training with adequate intensity, progressively overload. eat properly, sleep properly, deal with your stress and have stress management techniques.

00:01:40:05 - 00:02:08:10
Unknown
But with, the line of pull of your lat pull down is 100% aligned with the lower fibers, or whether it's, you know, not is not really going to make any difference. and so a lot of what I see that is wrong within the gym is not necessarily people lifting with bad form, but people caring about the wrong things.

00:02:08:12 - 00:02:39:10
Unknown
and I think that's probably. Yeah. What where do you think that comes from. Like so I 100% agree with that. I think that that actually can come from social media and the fact that we need to be continuously repackaging things that, that a new, and then a novelty because it grabs attention and because if you have the secret sauce, then everyone should listen to you and you'll become as popular as possible.

00:02:39:10 - 00:03:09:13
Unknown
And, and people won't necessarily listen to, you know, things outside of that. and there's only like what we spoke about before. There's only so many times that you can say, sleep well. Eight properly like adequate protein. Drink your water. De-stress. And there's only so many different ways that you can say that. And people will say, oh yeah, but I already know that.

00:03:09:13 - 00:03:36:15
Unknown
Like, give me, give me what really matters. And so a lot of my job is actually to just get people doing the basics. And it's, it's not about having any secret sauce or like, you know, I've got I've got the trick, but it's about having structure and accountability. And I yeah, I think that it comes from a place of social media where we have to always be creating things that are novelty in order to maintain attention.

00:03:36:17 - 00:03:56:12
Unknown
Because, yeah, I only made two reels about sleep. And then I was like, okay, well, I've, I've exhausted that. Like, same as you were talking about how, you can only talk about fat loss so many times. Yeah. Because if you got the same audience, like they already get the picture. yeah. And it's and it is the basics, like.

00:03:56:14 - 00:04:21:02
Unknown
And as I said many times you can say that and we've sort of contemplated sometimes about, you know, going down a rabbit hole and just saying this one thing is going to change your life, but it's never that one thing that's actually gone. It's yeah, it's all of the above. And that's the difficulty with social media, because unless you have a hook or a caption that pretends that you have that special sauce, no one is actually going to engage in the content that you're making.

00:04:21:04 - 00:04:50:09
Unknown
And so what I try to do when I make my content is do something controversial for the caption. Like for instance, I did one recently was here's what to do if your hip is out because everyone thinks their hips out from sleeping wrong. And then the actual caption was like, oh, it's probably not out. It's yeah. so that sort of led into my second thing I wanted to bring up for everybody listening.

00:04:50:09 - 00:05:21:01
Unknown
What is the where can I find you on social media? Cool. So my Instagram handle is pain coaching. I mainly use Instagram. I dabble with TikTok a little bit, but I just don't think I can commit any more time to social media. yeah. Encouraging is where I do. I'm an osteo, so I, I do online pain coaching for people with chronic pain or struggling with chronic injury.

00:05:21:03 - 00:05:52:07
Unknown
essentially people that, struggling to get into the gym because it's more of a complex case where they often get injured or they're struggling with like a chronic pain condition, whether it's something super complex like fibromyalgia, or something a little bit more basic, like a recurring chronic low back pain. So my demographic is generally I help those people engage in physical activity because, you know, the mental health benefits of physical activity.

00:05:52:09 - 00:06:19:15
Unknown
this is a sort of a population that, that, that needs that and also a population that isn't able to necessarily go into a clinical setting. And so that's why I do that online as well, to sort of help people where they're at in their own homes. through an online platform. So why pain coach? because, yeah, that's I, I seen that and that could be interpreted as many different ways.

00:06:19:17 - 00:06:53:17
Unknown
So how did you come out of that name? Or what? I see myself, especially through having a personal training background as more of a coach than a clinician. I think that the, the, sort of over medicalization of my field can make it inaccessible to people that need it. And like, as an osteo specifically like I wish that we worked in the setting a little bit more like OTS, where we actually went out and met people where they needed to be met and helped them on their terms.

00:06:53:17 - 00:07:40:03
Unknown
But. I try to get it a little bit further away from clinical and into a coaching space, essentially because, my manual therapy side of things. So I do massage, I do cupping, I do enabling all that kind of thing. But that's not where I see the real value at in what I do. It's actually my knowledge and how I can help people make lifestyle changes and and coached them through their pain and their perspective on pain because, for instance, your beliefs about the resiliency and, the resiliency of your body and the state of it is possibly a greater predictor of whether you're going to be in pain than if you actually have

00:07:40:03 - 00:08:06:08
Unknown
a disc bulge. So, for instance, like they've done studies, let's say you take 100 people, do 100 spine and MRI's, 50 people have no pain, 50 people have lots of pain. You'll see the same amount of degenerative disc disease, degenerative joint disease, disc bulges. So it's. But in the 50 people with pain you will see a trend of that.

00:08:06:08 - 00:08:31:10
Unknown
They are generally quite pessimistic and sort of feel like their body is quite fragile and not resilient. So it's more of a coaching role than it is a treatment role. In my in my eyes. So let's wrap all that up. Say somebody is listening to say has a little bit of back pain or you know hasn't really exercised before.

00:08:31:12 - 00:09:06:00
Unknown
They want to get in the gym. They want to start exercising but they're a little bit afraid of starting. What advice or how would you recommend they get started. Look at their why and what their overarching goals are. And break that down into minuscule pieces like. Anything is far better than nothing when it comes to pain and and people worrying about pain and whether they can can engage in physical activity.

00:09:06:00 - 00:09:24:16
Unknown
The first piece of advice that I give them is to go get assessed by a professional, because if they give you the go ahead, no matter what kind of of pain and worry about that, you can actually engage in physical activity and just like, look at where you want to go, break it down into minuscule pieces and just take that first step.

00:09:24:18 - 00:09:57:18
Unknown
And whether that's walking more or doing like two minutes of stretches per day, and then just slowly increasing that over time. like, let's say someone wants to walk, to run five KS. Start by walking 100m. If you haven't been able to do that, then next week, 200, the next week 400. So yeah, for people with back pain, aches, pains, niggles, I just say just take the first tiny step is really the only realistic thing.

00:09:57:20 - 00:10:25:18
Unknown
That's. Yeah. So in my experience when I say that and I'll try and stop people off small but easing them into the gym very easy exercises getting their body moving. It's like but I seen this on Instagram and I want to do this and I want those results tomorrow. Yeah. How do you have that conversation. it's just all around education as to what actually really works.

00:10:25:20 - 00:10:55:22
Unknown
And what I was talking to you about earlier with. One of the things that I see people get wrong in the gym most often it's it's having their priorities wrong. And it's a really difficult job to change. Someone's mindset and expectations and beliefs mainly. But you just got to sort of try and connect with that person and, and slowly challenge their beliefs in a way that's not too abrasive.

00:10:55:22 - 00:11:19:16
Unknown
So to lose their trust or for them not to like you. Because if someone comes in to me and I do all of my assessments and I go, okay, well this person doesn't have any bad underlying injury in their back. I'm not just going to say by the way you're not actually damaged. So you know how you haven't squatted for five years.

00:11:19:18 - 00:11:47:10
Unknown
Let's go do a 60 kilo back squat like they're never going to come back. But it's about getting them to do a five kilo back squat and saying how did that feel afterwards. And and and slowly teaching them that yeah. The day I do it and just educating them properly that the things that they see on Instagram are actually to grab attention rather than being something that's, that's really effective for fat loss of muscle growth.

00:11:47:12 - 00:12:15:04
Unknown
yeah. Muscle gains or anything like that. Trust is a big thing. I'm glad you brought that up. So like and it's something that is very hard to learn. But how this is probably in football all the coaches listening how would you. Any tips advice on getting your clients to trust you in that first encounter.

00:12:15:06 - 00:12:43:18
Unknown
that number one piece of advice would probably be to tell people when you don't know, like, don't try and reach past your expertise because you can be very secure in your knowledge and be like, oh, I actually don't know very much about that, but I'll go and I'll go and have a look because it's refreshing for someone not to sort of bullshit you, you know what I mean?

00:12:43:18 - 00:13:12:15
Unknown
And pretend that they are better than they are. And I think that does build a sense of trust. yeah. What about appearances and where you meet them? Or like, whether it's online, phone call in person, all that sort of stuff? I try to very much match someone's tone and, and, way of speaking and trying to communicate them with them on their terms.

00:13:12:17 - 00:13:52:16
Unknown
rather than to, like, prove to them, like, how much I know. it's just about communicating and building rapport. And, and people also work with people that they like. So I also won't become someone that I'm not to try and meet someone that probably wouldn't like me that much as I normally am, because I'm not the right practitioner for them, and they're you cannot be the right practitioner for someone and have them have a really good image of you with the way that you communicate them and refer them on as well.

00:13:52:17 - 00:14:10:13
Unknown
but yeah, that's a that's a difficult question. Do you have any tips for me? No. I think you just nailed the headline. Just shut up and listen. Basically ask a question. Just listen. And like you said, if you don't know movement. Yeah. And most of the time, like when, say, a client comes, man, I want to do powerlifting.

00:14:10:13 - 00:14:32:12
Unknown
I don't think I'll say I'm like, that's not me. Like, I know how to lift, but I'm not a good powerlifting coach. So it's like, you know, go find somebody else that does that. or bodybuilding. I don't people for bodybuilding shows and generally when I say that, they're like, oh, okay, but I'll work with you anyway until, yeah, I can move on and go somewhere else.

00:14:32:12 - 00:14:51:08
Unknown
So, but yeah, to me it's just like, ask a question. Shut up and listen. But yeah, they usually just going to talk talk talk talk. Yeah. And you just sit there, listen. And like you said, you just learn how to gauge people. Yeah. And where they need to be pushed, where you don't push them all that sort of stuff.

00:14:51:10 - 00:15:15:13
Unknown
Sometimes I get it wrong. Is that something you've learned how to do, or is that something that gets taught to you through your whole educational history? building trust and communicating? Yeah. a bit of both. So, like I said, you started off as a pet. Started off as a pet? Yeah. Yeah. How long do you do that for?

00:15:15:15 - 00:15:48:17
Unknown
I did that for two years before I started LCA in Melbourne. Yep. So in Essendon? Yeah, in the same place. I have my clinic, at a group fitness center. And I didn't think that group fitness was that much out before I started working there, but there. so many other aspects to your sort of health and fitness journey that, equally as important as, you know, for instance, motivation, engagement, structure, accountability.

00:15:48:19 - 00:16:12:15
Unknown
Like, they're the things that people are asking about this Instagram exercise. They're the things these people should be focusing on. Because you can have the most optimal program in the world with all the data. But if you're not training it or you missed on average two days a week, like you're not even actually doing the program. but back to your question.

00:16:12:17 - 00:16:45:20
Unknown
Through uni we learned lots of different communication styles and motivational interviewing and and, how to challenge people's beliefs in a way that's not too abrasive. But throughout my clinical practice, I've just learned to keep my mouth shut. To be honest, because if I try to address every point that I patient brings up, then they're sort of dictating the way that the appointment runs and where we go.

00:16:45:20 - 00:17:08:19
Unknown
And it's it's always so chaotic. But if I just listen and don't say anything and I pick, they've said about 50 things and I pick the top two and I'll do that at the end. but communication is like I'm always trying to improve it because it doesn't matter what you know, if you can't communicate it effectively you're not helping anyone.

00:17:08:21 - 00:17:27:11
Unknown
What about appearances. Because like personal trainers are probably the worst. Like you get some personal trainers and like you said your personal trainer, some people might roll their eyes and like oh right. But other people have a different opinion. So I, I haven't been in the cities like I've been in Melbourne for a year and a half.

00:17:27:11 - 00:17:46:21
Unknown
So I've used to like country parties. So very different vibe like very different gyms as well. Yeah. And you know different isn't bad. It's just different. so like I went to a doctor about six months, six months ago, and I told him what I did for a living, and he rolled his eyes. Authority that hard? I thought he's going to fall out of his chair.

00:17:46:23 - 00:18:10:00
Unknown
I was like, in know. And obviously he has an image of a personal trainer. Yeah, I was like, what am I missing there? Like, is there some people that are just like, I don't understand why that doctor rolled his eyes at heart of me. Yeah. like as in biases against my profession kind of thing, in the way that people say osteopaths.

00:18:10:00 - 00:18:36:15
Unknown
I guess that could just be, like, the same as there's probably Aussies online. It's been in all sorts of B.S. as well. misinformation and pseudoscience is actually a massive issue within my profession, and it makes it really difficult for a lot of us to practice properly. Because even though I love the degree, like I studied specialized for five years, full time is is what it takes to be an osteo.

00:18:36:17 - 00:19:11:00
Unknown
and like, I can't work in NDIS, I can't work in aged care, I can't work in hospitals, I can't work in sports teams, but only in like the I, the treatment or high performance sector. Everything else is physio based. I think honestly, I just try to, demonstrate how I'm different from a lot of normal steers because I focus a lot more on the lifestyle, rehab and exercise and sort of just general health space.

00:19:11:02 - 00:19:37:11
Unknown
And I do the hands on stuff and it's like, this is going to make you feel better today so that you can engage in moving more. and it's also about calling out misinformation. And I try to be semi vocal with that on social media. And it's really funny that like, I am talking about things that are in line with the most updated evidence, but it's controversial within my field, which is really funny.

00:19:37:13 - 00:20:06:10
Unknown
Well, like for someone to say on social media cracking you back, you can't change structure, cracking someone's back or yeah, it's short term pain relief that like, we shouldn't do it to all these different demographics like kids or anything like that, like that is saying is controversial from a lot of my, from a lot of osteo that are more structural based rather than exercise and lifestyle based.

00:20:06:10 - 00:20:41:14
Unknown
So more just like treatment is the be all and end all and I think it actually makes me quite it makes it quite easy to stand out more on social media because you're controversial, but it also gives you confidence because you're in line with the most sort of the best evidence. Yeah. I did like, I went through your page and just watched all your stuff, and a lot of your stuff is, I guess treating people in a way that they're going to be fun on their own.

00:20:41:14 - 00:20:58:18
Unknown
And that's why I was happy to have you on, because, again, sometimes Coros also is physio. It's just like a revolving door of people coming right next, coming straight next. Yeah. And pets can be the same. Like like all my clients. I try and teach them everything I know so I can go and do it on their own.

00:20:58:19 - 00:21:30:07
Unknown
It's not a good way to be financially, but it isn't. It isn't if you set it up right. But a lot of pets are just like, I'll see you for the rest of your life once a week. And it's like, well, that's not what a pet should be doing. and that's why I was happy to have you on so I guess where I'm going with this define how do you find success in bringing up those topics on social media and posting about them when, you know you could, you know, bring up those controversial topics?

00:21:30:07 - 00:22:20:09
Unknown
Yeah. How do I find bringing out what specifically? Like, well, like, do you ever get do you ever want to talk about those topics or, you know, say a topic that's controversial to get more likes and have you done it? or like not. That's really controversial to people that have studied within the last five years. I try to be controversial to common narratives that we believe, so, for instance, like the amount of question questions that I get about, like my dad told me that my keep these out because I slept funny.

00:22:20:09 - 00:22:37:21
Unknown
What am I supposed to do about that? And it's controversial, me saying, well, your hips not out because you can't. It's so hard to dislocate your hip. You have to be in this really janky position, getting pulled that way. And like, you're walking right now. You're not even at 20 out of ten pain. So like, nothing's out there.

00:22:37:21 - 00:23:35:03
Unknown
Just over medicalization, normal differences in aches, pains and structure and function. but I haven't. I just don't think I can compromise on my values and, and talk about things that I don't see as being a positive influence into, like the healthcare space. because I think that especially with like I think that osteo is cars, physios have actually done had quite a negative impact historically over medicalization and over demonizing normal differences in structure, symmetry, posture, function, and has created this space where we think that our bodies lack so much resiliency and that that is a big thing about, what I'm trying to combat with a lot of my content.

00:23:35:08 - 00:24:03:16
Unknown
Yeah. And that's sort of where I want to go next. Like, so should people be relying on studies and everything for the health, wellness, fitness, all that sort of stuff? Yeah. So evidence based practice is really important. But because evidence based practice within this realm, like, musculoskeletal health care, there's not that much research to go off.

00:24:03:18 - 00:24:41:15
Unknown
And so you've also got like I yes, I think we should be basing a lot if we have studies for it, we should be basing it on that and not our own direct experience over if it's high quality studies from high quality journals. But just because someone cites a study doesn't mean that it's good quality research. Because, for instance, there are a lot of predatory journals that will publish people's research, and say that it's peer reviewed when it's just not like, do you guys know, like squat, you or Andrew Locke?

00:24:41:17 - 00:25:13:13
Unknown
Andrew Luck's a famous, Aussie physio. And squat use massive on Instagram. They recently published a paper in a predatory journal together. And then it went all over social media like, oh, the research finally says that, discs don't adapt to load. and the peer review process took like four hours. And if anyone knows how a peer review process goes, it takes weeks or months and longer for the paper to get published.

00:25:13:13 - 00:25:40:14
Unknown
So for a 12 hour turnaround time, it's like, well, it doesn't matter if that what journal that scene. Sorry. It doesn't matter how quickly that's been published and whether it's peer reviewed. It's like it's predatory and fake, almost. why would they do that money? because like a lot of people have for instance, squat you is really into barefoot shoes at the moment and I like, I like I love barefoot shoes.

00:25:40:14 - 00:26:02:11
Unknown
I've got barefoot shoes. But what they'll generally do is try and produce research that shows that not having barefoot shoes is bad for you. And so in order for these terrible thing not to happen, you need to purchase these shoes. And, like when I first heard about it, I was like, surely we're not actually doing that? Like, that's not actually a thing.

00:26:02:11 - 00:26:30:12
Unknown
But, but yeah, people have vested interests in, in certain categories or narratives and they'll, supply research to sort of back that up. Are you talking about Squad University? The the page that has a guy does like the. Yeah. Aaron something. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. See I don't look at the shoes I'm wearing because they're the shoes that you he recommends Jack.

00:26:30:14 - 00:27:04:05
Unknown
even me like someone that kind of gets the, I guess, the scientific side of where evidence comes from. Thought that they were like a legitimate page to follow to some extent. You know what I mean? But in saying that, I'm not definitely not equipped to reading, like, I guess osteo oriented papers more so. Psych. Yeah, papers. So how on earth is the general public supposed to, I guess, determine what is fact and what is a publicity stunt?

00:27:04:07 - 00:27:30:06
Unknown
It's nearly impossible. I honestly deny the answer. Yeah, I'm like the the problem is as well, a lot of these people have really good messaging and have really good points. like Scott University has great points about like for instance, here wedges and and how they can be really helpful if you've got, the femur that's quite long in proportion to your, calf or your tibia.

00:27:30:07 - 00:28:00:18
Unknown
And so, yeah, in order to squat deep, you might just need a heel wedge rather than more dorsiflexion or something like that in your ankle. But, you can't really discern because they have so many good points. What's real and what is bias. Yeah. And so I think it's all about listening to people that you do trust and respect and actually promoting other people that are doing a lot of good within this space.

00:28:00:18 - 00:28:23:17
Unknown
So like there, there are people that I could recommend to you that you should definitely follow their page because everything that they speak is like top notch. And there are some people that's like 5050, like, you know, there's NASA, Vito's guy, for instance. he's great for a living, you know, promoting movement and day catastrophizing, just progressive overload.

00:28:23:19 - 00:28:45:00
Unknown
But like, t braces aren't going to fix you everything. You know what I mean? Yeah. so who do you look to when you're, like, when you're trying to understand something or somebody asks you a question you don't know? Yeah. who's sources? So yeah, it's sort of, I guess the medical industry that everybody doesn't have access to.

00:28:45:01 - 00:29:05:06
Unknown
Yeah. And all that sort of stuff. So a lot of researchers are on social media, and because they've sort of realized the disconnect between academia and the real world, it's just like, we can't be waiting 15 years for what we know works to actually be used anymore. So I try to find researchers in all the different fields that I really like.

00:29:05:06 - 00:29:33:05
Unknown
Like, for instance, if you're looking at bodybuilding hypertrophy, Brad's gone field, in New York, doctor McKee's or towel, he's like, he's amazing. and there's people in Melbourne as well like Melbourne. Strength culture are really amazing. they and they have a podcast too that they really good. Alex Blinis, is someone I reckon every single person should follow on Instagram.

00:29:33:05 - 00:30:04:15
Unknown
He's a vegan hybrid athlete that runs ultramarathons but can also deadlift like, I don't know, 250 and he's just insane and, yeah, like, I can I can provide you a hey, believe the counts as well to put in the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How does it go. Yeah. Because I think that these people will help you understand how resilient and it's such a, it's just so much of a positive way to view your body and,

00:30:04:16 - 00:30:23:12
Unknown
Yeah. Your resiliency and capacity. so it's just about trying to promote people that are giving good messaging and try to educate who, you know, but because there's no actual way to be able to tell by just looking at a post and not fact checking it really deeply to figure out whether it's it's true or not.

00:30:23:14 - 00:30:43:11
Unknown
Yeah. It's it's scary sometimes. Like it's fully freaky. Yeah. Like obviously and ranges and getting that stretch activation is really big in the hypertrophy world at the moment. Like Mikey Crystal is just all over it. Yeah. So yeah but it's good. But then a lot of people come to the gym. It's like I need to do that.

00:30:43:11 - 00:31:06:10
Unknown
It's like, well, hold on like 100%. Just just chill, work up to it and we'll get there eventually. And it's like this. They're those one percenters that you're talking about earlier. Yeah. Like first aid sleep train with intent and rock up the amount of times you say you're going to rock up like we'll do that first and then 100% will bias that stretch position.

00:31:06:12 - 00:31:30:11
Unknown
But like until you do that for three months, I think that's why coaching like I, I definitely feel the word coaching has somewhat of like less of a strong reputation to say osteo, but I feel like it's so much more important in personal training, in nutrition, in osteo, in psychology, even because you can give out all this general advice.

00:31:30:11 - 00:31:50:18
Unknown
But like you said, at the end of the day, everyone's body is so very individual. So you really need the coach to be able to assess you, to actually give you specific advice. Right? I really before we move on, because I know you have another question, but I really can you like please explain what the beneficial difference between osteo and a physio would be?

00:31:50:19 - 00:32:13:16
Unknown
Because I went I had like a whole hip thing and I've talked about it a bunch on the podcast and there was a few people that were following along who had similar issues and they're like, tell us when you figure it out. But I went to like multiple physios over a four year span and then I just decided to go to an osteo because it was recommended to me within five sessions.

00:32:13:16 - 00:32:36:09
Unknown
I was out of that, like, see you later. Like your fixed and the entire experience from the moment, like from my very first like consultation session to my last, completely different to a physio. And I can't even I can't even put into words what the difference is because it's not I'm not from behind the scenes, I suppose. So I feel like maybe our listeners would benefit from knowing that as well.

00:32:36:11 - 00:33:03:20
Unknown
So like the main three, physio, osteo chiro, the all series of videos are really, really similar. Most of the time it'll actually come down to the practitioner that you're saying and just how they operate specifically. It's like we're pets, you know what I mean? It's really the person. But general differences. so osteo started first. It started like a really long time ago.

00:33:03:20 - 00:33:29:16
Unknown
And then chiropractic is a branch, almost the opposite. Okay. and then physiotherapy pretty much just came through and was very, very similar to osteopathy. But from a Western standpoint, or a more medicalized standpoint, because I think that the all Western, so an osteo really views the body as a whole, and it's a very holistic approach.

00:33:29:18 - 00:34:01:23
Unknown
and a physio is sort of more medical and hyper specific. and a chiropractor, the sort of underlying philosophy is that everything is influenced from the nerves that leave each spinal level. So adjusting the spinal level will sort of fix or treat whatever dysfunction is on the other side of that. but if you look at the way that we actually study now, it's pretty much all very similar.

00:34:02:01 - 00:34:25:20
Unknown
Osteo is just do more manual therapy than physios, but we do all of the same rehab and knowledge and stuff and the way that the taught is generally more hospital and physios, generally more hospital biased. Okay. We're we're all private practice. Okay. Yeah. So like if you were to have surgery then you would be saying after surgery you'd likely be seeing a physio.

00:34:25:22 - 00:34:52:05
Unknown
Yeah. So officially through the hospital like streams you'll just see physios. You won't see osteo. But I also deal with a lot of post-op. Yeah. People from private and stuff like that. So you could say that but yeah if you, if you go through public stream you'll say a physio. Yeah, yeah. Nice. I've got a question for you that we've both answered.

00:34:52:05 - 00:35:19:16
Unknown
So once a month we do a Q&A. So everybody from the audience sends in a question and we answer a bunch. we actually had a different answer on this one. So I'm curious to see where you end up. Pretty simple life sort of, listing the most important going down. What should people focus on the most? Sleep, exercise or nutrition?

00:35:19:18 - 00:36:04:17
Unknown
And what, what are their goals? Yeah. What are their goals? sleep, exercise or nutrition? let's just say somebody walked in. I want to feel better. I look better, I have more energy with longer life. I would say exercise, because they're probably doing the first two already. And so unless they're sleeping, like, less than four hours and not even if they're not sleeping enough, and even if their diet is poor, if they're not exercising at all and you get them exercising, they're going to be physiologically healthier.

00:36:04:19 - 00:36:30:20
Unknown
They're probably going to have better mental health and then better capacity to engage and, and, and all of these other things, it depends on what state they come in in. But I would say like, even Alec Guinness actually did a post on this recently and he was talking about, yes, I sacrifice an extra hours or even two hours of sleep because I get up and I run every single morning.

00:36:30:22 - 00:36:54:04
Unknown
But the physiological benefits that he gets from being so much more cardiovascular fit actually outweighs the detriment of missing an extra hour sleep. so if you had asked me that three months ago, I might come up with a different answer. But I think that eating and sleeping, in order to be alive as a human being, that's kind of a given.

00:36:54:06 - 00:37:19:00
Unknown
You have to do that already. So if they're not exercising, that would be my number one priority. but like Isobel got asked a similar question on a podcast I was listening to. And he's basically just like sleep more us. All right. Yeah, yeah. Did you. Yeah. Yeah I saw that one. when we, when we had that question in the original Q&A episode, there was so much controversy.

00:37:19:00 - 00:37:41:12
Unknown
Controversy in the comments about the order of it because it's it's like so personal, right? Like to the person. And they're all equally as important as one another. Yeah. But yeah, you can't like without proper context, you can the answer will be there for you if you actually know the person. If you ask three three questions, what are you eating?

00:37:41:17 - 00:38:08:02
Unknown
How much are you sleeping? What's your exercise like? like, what are you doing for exercise? Then you know the perfect answer to that question. But they're also the absolute pillars of health and wellness that my answer was similar to yours. Just start exercising like you said, you mental like you just want to improve the others. After a little while because you want to get better at exercising and all that sort of stuff.

00:38:08:03 - 00:38:30:01
Unknown
Says, how about you? What was your answer? I don't remember what my. Do you remember what my answer was? Because I feel like I had very good logic behind it too, but now I can't remember it. I feel like, what's your answer now? I feel like I think originally I said sleep because I know from a person's perspective and a coaching perspective that people can make better decisions when they have had enough sleep.

00:38:30:01 - 00:38:48:14
Unknown
Like it's much harder to make good food choices and to get yourself to the gym when you sleep deprived. So I'm pretty sure that's why I was stuck on sleep as my main one. Yeah, but I'm also very fussy about sleep too, so I feel like personally it's. Yeah, and all of them are so important, like, you know.

00:38:48:14 - 00:39:16:14
Unknown
But back to why you ask why coaching before when I'm trading someone I'm generally coaching them. Like if they're if they've got complex pain or long standing pain. We look at their sleep, we look at their nutrition. And I've got a dietician that I refer to, we look at their stress levels and I care so much more about them than what I'm doing with my hands on the table in terms of massage, cracking backs and all that kind of thing.

00:39:16:16 - 00:39:44:12
Unknown
Like it's pretty much that side of things is really helpful with recovery and and to get someone moving again. But like, it is also to build that rapport so I can really coach them. yeah. So all right, one more fun one before we jump into some pain questions. So I really want to go into the pain topic, but if you could only do ten exercises for the rest of your life, I only ten.

00:39:44:14 - 00:39:50:10
Unknown
Yeah. What would they be? Oh man. Okay,

00:39:50:11 - 00:39:52:22
Unknown
So yes ten exercises.

00:39:52:22 - 00:40:18:21
Unknown
What do you got for us? does this person not. Do you, do I have do I have access to a gym? Yep. Yep. You can have access to any equipment, any gym, any space. Yep. I'm going to go. slight incline dumbbell bench. Why incline? I just like it more like you're doing it for the rest of your life.

00:40:18:21 - 00:40:45:22
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I like it. I would do. This is good. I would also do. Chest supported. Seated row. Chest supported. Because I think it's less fatiguing because you don't have to do like the isometric of holding your body up the whole time. If it's chest supported you, just you utilizing your back. weighted chin ups.

00:40:46:00 - 00:40:56:14
Unknown
Definitely weighted dips for

00:40:56:16 - 00:41:28:20
Unknown
I would also do. what squat movement would I do? Tip rises aren't going to make you crazy. Not getting my shit got absolutely not. I'd probably choose Bulgarian split squats or, Like on a hack squat. Okay. Just love hack squat. Wait, what the heck? Squat again? it's the one where you get to stay really upright, so it's really quite dominant.

00:41:28:20 - 00:41:54:21
Unknown
And it's kind of like on this 45 degree angle. Your head's up this way. yeah. And it's sort of just going this leg press. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a reverse leg press. Just, so Bulgarian ends, hack squat or just one or the other. just hack squat. Okay. Five. no no, no, just Bulgarian because hacks for it doesn't do much for glutes.

00:41:54:23 - 00:42:28:10
Unknown
five I would do. I've already said dips. Have I done, running. Yeah, definitely. Because like I actually I've only really paid respect to how important cardiovascular fitness is. so seriously, in the last couple of years, six steps here, I think I've done six. I would do like, calisthenics. Rings work. Oh, yeah. It's just so much fun.

00:42:28:11 - 00:42:52:23
Unknown
And I think having, like, having to utilize body weight and calisthenics type work makes you focus on the knowledge behind how to make an exercise difficult, rather than just being able to slap more weight on the bar. I would do.

00:42:53:01 - 00:43:19:14
Unknown
Calf raises any particular kind standing just because I want big juicy calves. No. I would do standing just because. Loaded in any way. Yeah. Loaded like as heavy as I possibly could. How do you do that Smith machine. Nah, there's you can get calf raised machines. Oh. Is standing ones with the pads over your shoulders. Yep. And just go as heavy as you possibly can with that one.

00:43:19:16 - 00:43:43:06
Unknown
Two more, two more. I got push ups because they're just so accessible and can be done anywhere. And handstands because they're a lot of fun. Yeah, that was a wild deck of cards. Oh no no no no, I'm going back I'm going back. I'm taking at push ups and I'm putting in a search. Jefferson Curl deadlift.

00:43:43:07 - 00:44:12:11
Unknown
Okay. Have you guys seen them ahead? No. So just explain what it is for everybody. So it's a similar to a stiff like deadlift, but instead of trying to keep your back really rigid and straight in good form, you like fold down. And it looks like the ugliest deadlift you've ever done. And then the barbells in you and the barbell using your elbows so that you can get that extra range and go all the way to the ground.

00:44:12:11 - 00:44:46:16
Unknown
Is it is there one of those on your feet? Yeah, I love it. It's so much fun. Yeah. What? we have sort of demonized spinal flexion and we never train it. And it's like this self-fulfilling prophecy, right? When you're deadlifting, everyone talks about don't lose your form. Don't lose your form. You'll hurt your back. And at the moment, that's kind of true, because if you have always did lifted with a really rigid back and one day under a certain level of fatigue, you're unable to hold that.

00:44:46:16 - 00:45:09:15
Unknown
And then you your round your back. Those structures that you're now stressing have never been trained because you've never lifted with that technique before. and so they go, oh, I knew I shouldn't have, I shouldn't have lost my form. And it's like, well, actually, if you weren't so serious about having a perfectly straight back every time you deadlift it, you would be prepared for that.

00:45:09:16 - 00:45:33:19
Unknown
you know, and so I just really liked them. And I really like, it absolutely tortures my whole lower back and glutes and hamstrings, and it's just really fun. Yeah. have you done them or have you like them? Yeah, because they've been all over social media. True. Yeah. yeah, I like I like a good squat as well.

00:45:33:21 - 00:45:50:18
Unknown
Don't do it. Don't probably don't do it as often as I should. Yeah. I'm sometimes scared to look like a fool in the gym and do things that are different. You know what I mean? Do you think most people are like that? Because I haven't been training for that long. If you do one of those, everybody's like, damn, that's hot.

00:45:50:18 - 00:46:23:13
Unknown
Like everybody's like, oh, I wish I could do that. Yeah, that's what I think everybody's thinking anyway. And like, yeah, yeah. Well I yeah, I get a few giggles. but like honestly this is, this is also what we're talking about before people focus on like what exercise. It doesn't have to even be an exercise that exists. If you progressively overload it and you're doing some random whack movement, like you're going to increase muscle mass, you're going to get stronger within that specific movement.

00:46:23:13 - 00:46:50:16
Unknown
Like it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you follow a certain set of principles rather than exercises themselves. You know what I mean? Yeah. yeah. Well, that's sort of like how important is technique? And look, what is technique like? I often see people in the gym and they've got the worst technique in the world, but they turn up every day doing the same exercise in the worst possible way.

00:46:50:18 - 00:47:12:01
Unknown
And they look great. They move like, you know, in the movements. I don't don't like they move really well. Yeah. And I always have this conversation with another coach that works at the gym. What, like a weight wrong. Like because again, especially as a petite, it's like, you know, don't squat below parallel, don't bring the bar down to your chest when you because it's all safety in these.

00:47:12:01 - 00:47:34:19
Unknown
Yeah. That people that's like well why not move through so much like the other day or the the ladder rise all the way to the, you know, touches and double and everybody's like, looking at me go, boy. You don't raise your hands above your shoulder. I'm like like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. technique doesn't really matter for injury, but it matters a lot for performance.

00:47:34:21 - 00:48:08:00
Unknown
So like if you deadlift with a rounded back, but you've done it from your very first deadlift up to 150 kilos in a, in a graded progression progressive fashion, you're not more predisposed to injury than someone that is deadlifting with what stereotypically looks like amazing technique, as long as they've followed the same principles as you past the point where, like, let's say you drop into a squat and your technique is actually so bad that you fall over and you, like, hurt yourself that way in terms of like, you executed it incorrectly and you fell and the barbell hit you.

00:48:08:05 - 00:48:38:01
Unknown
It matters in that way. But there are not many other scenarios where I can think of technique really mattering inherently for injury risk. because the way that I also rehab people is, I'm like, what hurts you the most? What can't you do? And you let tissues settle, but then you, you, you sort of get them to do the thing that hurts them, but it's the dose that dictates the poison.

00:48:38:01 - 00:49:03:02
Unknown
Right? So it's it they hurt themselves doing a 150 kilo deadlift. What are we doing week one? Deadlifting. But with a 20 kilo bomb. buffer performance like your joint, the positions that your joints go into and how much force your muscles are able to apply based on that will mean that slightly better joint positioning means that you can lift heavier.

00:49:03:04 - 00:49:29:02
Unknown
But yeah, it doesn't really matter from an injury risk standpoint. And, that's probably pretty controversial. but I'm pretty solid on that one actually. Yeah. Of, of going back and forth on that. And I'm definitely now just like as long as you move in safely with a decent light, go for it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And.

00:49:29:04 - 00:49:46:14
Unknown
The biggest problem with health and fitness space is that people don't move enough. So why are we creating these barriers? People being like, am I doing this right? I don't think I'm confident doing this until I do it in front of my pet so they can tell me I'm doing it right. It's like, that's a that's a barrier to moving more.

00:49:46:16 - 00:50:07:06
Unknown
So why are we creating these unnecessary barriers? Yeah, 100%. And that's like again let's move into the painting. So a lot of people are scared of pain. But then like what's the difference between, you know, doing a bicep curl and you bite like I use that example all the time. Guys would love to get a boss at pump and go until it absolutely burns.

00:50:07:06 - 00:50:38:13
Unknown
Yeah, but in one of your posts you said the same thing. They'll do a back exercise, get a pump in the back and like, oh my God, my back's broken. Yeah, yeah. it's it's it's what it's all about at sort of understanding and beliefs about what's happening and like this is massive within my profession is actually helping people understand all different types of types of pain and be aware of of what they should be worried about and what they shouldn't be.

00:50:38:15 - 00:50:57:07
Unknown
And it's like we've we've demonized this idea of back pain, that any back pain at all is a bad thing and something to be worried about. and like, yeah, if you do these Jefferson curls, like your back is going to be sore. Like my back sore today because I did them yesterday. And that's a totally cool thing.

00:50:57:10 - 00:51:26:19
Unknown
My pecs also sore because I did chest, but because we have these demonization of of normal differences in aches and pains that, yeah, people freak out. And a lot of my job is honestly like reassuring people that they're fine and they can continue doing what they were doing, but they just need a bit, a bit, be a bit smarter with how they progressively work into it.

00:51:26:21 - 00:51:52:04
Unknown
And yeah, I don't know if this is something you've experienced as well, but lately I've just had a a lot of people coming in, been afraid of getting injured, like just I can't do that because I'm going to get injured. And if I get injured, that's it. I'm done. I'm finished. Yeah. It's like I've never again. It could have just been moving to the city and having exposure to a whole new demographic, but I feel like it's that just getting more and more.

00:51:52:07 - 00:52:15:03
Unknown
And again, once you get people moving in the right way, they find they keep moving. Yeah. Have you noticed that as well? People are just super afraid of injuries or pain. Massively. And they to the point where they won't do anything. Yeah. and I do think that that is sort of somewhat a result of, my profession in the way that we previously used to tackle things.

00:52:15:05 - 00:52:47:14
Unknown
What do you mean? Like, oh, you get pain with that or you better not do that because, you know, you've been you've been playing cricket, and I know that's it. That's a, asymmetrical sort of activity. And I can feel that your, your right hips bit higher than your left or, and we sort of over medicalized and over demonize all of these normal phenomenon like aches and pains with training and, people also don't have a very good understanding that like pretty much every injury heals in about three months.

00:52:47:16 - 00:53:16:16
Unknown
So like, and, and a lot of people are also so scared of getting injured and not being able to train because they think that if you strain your quads that you can't train upper body. Do you know what I mean? You can you can always do something. but I definitely say it within my work. And it's a really difficult job for me because I'm pretty much telling people that are coming to me and paying me money because they think they need the same age.

00:53:16:17 - 00:53:38:09
Unknown
I'm like, you don't really need to be doing all of this, but I've actually had to change the way I do that because I got to try telling someone that you just have to show them. You just have to prove to them. and I would say that that would be my piece of advice, a pay tease that get people coming in with the same thing, just constantly scared of being injured.

00:53:38:11 - 00:54:00:05
Unknown
because it is it is more popular to sort of have that frame of mind now, like I say it more often, and just by demonstrating to them that they can and just taking little, increasing things really slowly and progressively, like that's going to be the best way to increase someone's confidence and then build momentum with their training as well.

00:54:00:07 - 00:54:26:20
Unknown
are you got any questions on Pain Away? Where do you want to go? Where do you want to go? Talking about pain, I feel like you probably have more of an idea of what the general public needs to understand a bit more about. experiencing it. Yeah. If I could get one message across to anyone that's that's listening to this and looking to engage more in the health and fitness space is that pain does not mean injury.

00:54:26:22 - 00:54:53:08
Unknown
They it can. They are two separate things and pain is like an alarm signal of a perceived need to protect your body. So like really cool study. They did. I'm going to get the some of the stats slightly wrong, but it won't matter for the story. They had people sit down and they touched the back of their arm with a like cold rod.

00:54:53:08 - 00:55:19:18
Unknown
It was like maybe -five degrees Celsius or something like that. And they would flash one of two different colors of light on this big light right in front of the people. And when the light flashed red, they perceive the rod as hot and really painful and like they thought it was damaging their skin. But when the light flashed green, then they didn't experience any similar level of pain.

00:55:19:18 - 00:55:54:20
Unknown
I didn't think it was hot, anything like that. So our bodies perceived need to protect ourselves will bring on pain regardless of what's actually happening at the tissue level. For instance, 90% of back pain that you see in clinics is nonspecific, meaning we cannot find any damaged tissues responsible for someone's pain. But it is like the lead cause of disability and and money spent within the health care system.

00:55:54:20 - 00:56:21:22
Unknown
Out of all musculoskeletal injuries. It's like one of the leading causes of disability, but we can't find anything broken. So it's like even if you have a look at athletes, athletes have way lower levels of back pain compared to the rest of the population, but they have way higher levels of disc degeneration in their spine. And and sorry, degenerative joint disease.

00:56:22:00 - 00:56:55:12
Unknown
And so we need to really separate just because you're in pain, that doesn't mean that you're damaged. And it's actually a totally normal thing to experience pain. And it's about reframing and trying to understand why that is. And, and that's where someone like myself or like a good coach can actually really help them, because you will have more insight into, okay, this, in this, in this symptom, maybe it is damage or actually it looks like this and this and this, which means it's just pain with that damage.

00:56:55:14 - 00:57:15:17
Unknown
And I think that if personal trainers and coaches in general are able to be able to make that distinction early on, so many more people are going to be so much more active, for longer and not be stuck out of the gym saying that the car or physio asked if like six months of treatment.

00:57:15:18 - 00:57:43:12
Unknown
Is there any, I guess, do's or don'ts for people with pain like that? The fans, not even phantom pain, but that pain in the back when there's nothing wrong. Yeah, like rest. Yeah. No rest. Rest is like one of the number one things that you shouldn't do for back pain. So, like lying in bed, avoiding activity. It is the number one thing you shouldn't, shouldn't do for back pain.

00:57:43:14 - 00:58:27:21
Unknown
And, that's like chronic, nonspecific back pain if you've just, like, really hurt yourself, like falling or snowboarding or car accident or even lifting and it's like, but moving is is the best thing that you can do to help with pain. Moving in is as manageable of a way as possible. As much as you can like even post-surgery, they're trying to get people out of bed next day, same day now, rather than leaving them even for three days because outcomes are so much better when they're moving more, and yeah, because your body's response from exercise helps with reducing pain as well.

00:58:28:01 - 00:58:52:15
Unknown
100%. Yeah. And it's yeah, it's it is very hard to communicate that to people when they're in pain. Yeah. A good one that I recommend for people with back pain is you get them to do a really light Jefferson curl. So like really not lot rounded, rounded back deadlift that they fully freaked out by doing. But you just give them a two and a half kilo dumbbell, you get them to do three reps.

00:58:52:17 - 00:59:07:06
Unknown
The first two reps, they'll be like, oh, no, I can feel it. Oh, it's not necessarily pain, but I can feel it seizing up. And you just go just, just do a couple more for me. Now stand up. How do you feel? Do you feel better or worse? I'm not asking about during the rep. I'm asking about after the rep.

00:59:07:08 - 00:59:26:17
Unknown
I mean more pain or does it feel better if they're in more pain? I mean, you can maybe get them to go again, see how they go, but if they're in less pain, you don't even need to tell them. Well, if you've done the rep and it was painful during, but now you actually feel a lot better, what is that telling you?

00:59:26:18 - 00:59:59:03
Unknown
And that's something that any coach can get people to do it with. low back pain. we'll Pilates fix my back. what's what's your take on the reform reformer? Bit like reform applies. I have only done a little bit of reformer myself. I personally think that anything that's getting people moving and people love and is engaging, then, like, that's cool if they want to do more of that, that's amazing.

00:59:59:05 - 01:00:23:09
Unknown
But if people's goals are to put on muscle mass or get really cardiovascular fit, like it's not intense enough or progressive enough, in my opinion, because you can only add so much load. and, you know, like I was saying with calisthenics before, once you build that knowledge, then you can stress out the body in a meaningful way, but it's never going to be intense.

01:00:23:11 - 01:00:58:15
Unknown
As intense as lifting heavy or running far. and like, it's really popular within my profession to like, really popular being in any gym everywhere. I honestly think that it's really popular because you can have a heap of members at a gym and not take up a very big space with not very expensive equipment. So the money that you can make from Pilates alone, rather than having to buy hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of kilos of iron to be able to lift, I think that's a factor as to why it's so popular.

01:00:58:15 - 01:01:19:20
Unknown
But at the same time, there's also some research that has shown that pull plot is is is really effective for nonspecific low back pain, potentially even more than other exercise. But the totality of the evidence says that just any exercise is equally good at dealing with back pain. So I wouldn't say it's any silver bullet. what do you guys think?

01:01:19:20 - 01:01:35:21
Unknown
The ladies. Yes, I think I think it's a great tool to have. Yeah, it's definitely if you enjoy it, do it. Yeah, but don't rely on it as the only thing. And, Dunham, don't think that you can get absolutely jacked with with just doing plot. Yeah, I feel like because you get, you do get a burn, but it's not the same.

01:01:35:21 - 01:01:56:11
Unknown
Burn is lifting weights, right? So people think it's doing heaps of work, but it's it's just burning. Yeah. This is like the proxy of people associating a burn with an effective exercise. Yes. It's like you can put a band around your knees and do a glute bridge and you like, just shame. This is a mad stimulus, you know what I mean?

01:01:56:11 - 01:02:18:22
Unknown
But yeah, it's not doing anything because they're focusing on how much does this burn rather than what level of mechanical tension is applied here. Like what level of metabolic stress is my my muscles experiencing. And they're the two main drivers of muscle growth. It's the same as, you know, sweating in fat burning. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's if it was winning.

01:02:19:00 - 01:02:48:03
Unknown
Yeah. I should be the latest thing ever because I'm sweating right now. So I'm constantly. Yeah. all right. Couple of ones questions to wrap up. So you've obviously been in the industry for a while. You manage a PhD. if you could go back to the very start. Well, first of all, why did you get into personal training?

01:02:48:05 - 01:03:23:06
Unknown
I got into personal training because it was in line with my osteo degree, and I just wanted to help people. And I was passionate about health and fitness in general. I've been training myself for a long time, background in sports, and just thought that it would really help me with my education and knowledge moving forwards as an osteo, because I also think that like, a lot of, like my degree, even though rehab is the Mo and exercise is the most effective thing out of five years full time, we did one unit on rehab.

01:03:23:08 - 01:03:45:04
Unknown
And so unless you did your own training, you don't know how to progressively overload exercise unless it's the template stuff that you were given at uni. Yeah, yeah. All right. So that will play good into my question. If you could go back now. Yeah I'd say talk to yourself or somebody that's looking at getting into osteo personal training.

01:03:45:04 - 01:04:10:12
Unknown
Any sort of coaching someone. Yeah. What would you change in your like experiences if you've experienced things you've learned to like to little? If you could go back and say, you tell yourself, stop looking at this rather than this. honestly, I'd probably tell myself to go be a physio. That just works exactly the same way as I do now, because, like.

01:04:10:14 - 01:04:50:03
Unknown
It's the name that gets you so much more opportunity if you're a physio rather than an osteo, especially without within our healthcare system. and I feel like it's a constant battle for me to, to, to show people how it I'm always focused on lifestyle change and sort of general health and exercise and rehab. and I'd also say to work on your communication, equally, as much as you work on your knowledge, because I know so many amazing audios that I went to uni with that, incredible practitioners.

01:04:50:03 - 01:05:27:03
Unknown
And then knowledge is like off the charts. But, some people don't have the ability to communicate what they know effectively and to actually buy that engagement. so yeah, communication to me is something that I will always work on. And I would promote everyone working on. How do you work on it? so you can do courses, I'm currently doing stuff to improve my written communication, to get more engagement and buying.

01:05:27:05 - 01:05:56:08
Unknown
but also, like, I think that most of my communication has come from being surrounded by really good friends and good people and good communicators. but they also do teach it to a certain level within uni. And yeah, communicate to as many different people as you can, as often as you can in different as many different ways as you can.

01:05:56:08 - 01:06:21:21
Unknown
Because it doesn't matter how many books you read about communication. If if you don't practice it, you you can't hundred percent. I was going to say that as well. Like, if I can go back now when I first started, I just like learning how to communicate. But like, you got to learn by doing 100% because you never understand the nuance and the ways that you can get it wrong in certain scenarios until you've done it.

01:06:21:23 - 01:06:53:05
Unknown
what about on the business side of things like you've managed a boutique, like, is there anything, you know now where you could have went back inside yourself, some type of money managing? you guys saying Ted Lasso? Yes. It's like to be more like Ted Lasso. Yeah, yeah, it's just like you don't unless you really approach scenarios with, compassion and, like, and understanding, you're not going to get behavior change.

01:06:53:05 - 01:07:18:23
Unknown
You're not going to like I'm talking about managing people specifically because managing people is is tough. It's the best and the worst part of your job, people, is but yeah, I think that, putting in that extra work to, communicate with someone in the way that they need to be communicated with, because I've gone through periods where, like, I should just be able to be direct, I shouldn't have to worry.

01:07:18:23 - 01:07:53:11
Unknown
Like I'm very matter of fact. And I can't I shouldn't have to be, to do all of this extra work to communicate something that could just be said very directly. But the amount of work that comes after you do that, if you don't do it promptly is like just, a massive headache. but another piece of advice I would say is to try and build relationships within your industry and see how you can actually contribute positively to the people around you in your industry.

01:07:53:11 - 01:08:21:02
Unknown
So you're not competing against them. You're working with them because if you're competing against them, they're not going to help you or want to be around you. But if you're finding a way in which you can help improve their business in their clients lives, then like you is such an asset and just a positive influence when, yeah, to these people, that's probably been the biggest thing going from country to city.

01:08:21:05 - 01:08:40:19
Unknown
Yeah. Having the population like in the country, smaller population. So all the gyms, all the fitness people that really like against each other, although I've tried to sort of expand it out at one point and get everybody involved because, you know, if all the gyms in a small town work together, it's better for the town. Amazing, but didn't really work out, but then move into the city.

01:08:40:19 - 01:09:01:22
Unknown
It's just like there's just, you know, 5 million people in Melbourne, like, I don't have to stress about, you know, that one person that walks in the door, I can't let them go anywhere else. So, yeah. it's it's been a relief and good because we can have these conversations. I can talk to other coaches and there's no you know, I'm still in your, you know, that's that's good.

01:09:02:00 - 01:09:25:04
Unknown
Yeah. All right. Last one so far more is on my shirt I love it. because we both believe people, afraid of failing and they don't start anything. They won't do anything like we talked about with pain or, you know, getting injured. They're afraid of that failure, so they won't even start. But failing isn't. There's no such thing as failing.

01:09:25:04 - 01:09:46:03
Unknown
Like, we just say fail more. So you do more stuff and realize that you don't actually fail. So if you can think of whether it's fitness, business, life, whatever, what's a failure that everybody else would have seen as a failure, but you seen as a success because you've learned so much from it.

01:09:46:05 - 01:10:07:09
Unknown
breaking up with a patient, breaking up with a patient is something that's kind of confronting when you realize that you're not the right person for them and you feel like that you failed them in yourself, but it's actually a massive win to have the security and ability to be like, I actually don't think I'm the practitioner for you.

01:10:07:10 - 01:10:37:04
Unknown
I think what you need is something like this. And let's just find that for you, because if you're having to deal with someone that doesn't really vibe with you and you don't agree on things, and it's just sort of like constantly confrontational, like that is it's not good for anyone in that scenario, and you're actually doing the best thing by then by saying, hey, I actually think you'd be better with like, someone like this because I'm over here and, and we're just sort of not really gelling.

01:10:37:06 - 01:10:58:09
Unknown
but it's like, especially having my own business and telling someone, look, I don't think. I don't think this is going to work difficult. but yeah, I actually think a win rather than a failure. how do you just follow it up for myself, anyway? How do you manage that? I guess failure of clients, because it plays on my mind a lot.

01:10:58:09 - 01:11:30:08
Unknown
But, you know, I take on my clients because I want to help them sometimes. I'm not helping to the best I could, for whatever reason, applies on my mind. Yeah, it's hard to turn it off sometimes. Like, do you get that? How do you one down? Do you shut things out? Yeah. one of my housemates is actually clinical psych and had this conversation with me about how we're not responsible for their improvement, whether to facilitate and to provide aid and help them.

01:11:30:10 - 01:11:48:16
Unknown
But like, it's not our responsibility to force this person to do all these different things. And like I was, I was talking about it specifically about how do I change someone's mind about this really negative like thing. Because if I if I challenge them on this, they're just going to go and I'm not going to be able to help them.

01:11:48:18 - 01:12:22:11
Unknown
And she said, as a side like we know that it's not our responsibility to fix this person, but it's our responsibility to contribute to the betterment of their overall journey. And so, like, for instance, with me, if someone's thinks of their backs like broken, they've got a fracture or like that, they're really catastrophizing. If I go along with that, I'm contributing negatively because I'm positive, really reinforcing the fact I have these really bad beliefs about themselves.

01:12:22:13 - 01:12:46:20
Unknown
And I probably won't say them again if I say, hey, I know that this is probably the first you're going to hear this, but I actually don't think anything's wrong. Like, I can't find any evidence of anything being damaged. I might lose them as a patient, but ultimately that's going to plant the seed for if in two years, they say another practitioner and they say exactly the same thing they like.

01:12:46:22 - 01:13:04:20
Unknown
so yeah, I think taking away the responsibility and it is a job like, and you just do what you can do and sort of just try and let the rest go. But then easier said than done. Yeah, definitely. We say same thing all the time that we're just here to help people through their own journey.

01:13:04:20 - 01:13:27:22
Unknown
We can't do it for them. They go to just listen when they're ready. They listen and do it. But yeah it's very hard sometimes. Oh man. Yeah. Very difficult. all right. so I guess everybody listening. If you've listened this far, you've enjoyed the episode. So make sure you copy the show link, send it to a friend or family member because they're going to get something out of as well.

01:13:28:00 - 01:13:58:16
Unknown
And they can find you. Where can people find you online and in person? so Instagram is pain coaching. my business model is directly in Essendon is overcome osteo so overcome dotcom. and they're my yeah. My main two ways of getting in contact because I don't think these TikTok things going on. Yeah that's a well thank you very much for coming on.

01:13:58:21 - 01:14:02:17
Unknown
Thanks. I have enjoyed this. This has been great. It's been awesome.

01:14:02:18 - 01:14:09:16
Unknown
Up. Coming up a little bit more.

01:14:09:18 - 01:14:54:13
Unknown
So? Much?